Dan Ozzi is a writer who photographs.
The SELLOUT author on creative process, opposing "tech freaks," and photographing Glenn Danzig's Los Angeles home.
VANCOUVER — As a prominent archivist of all things emo and punk, it’s only fitting that Dan Ozzi seems to approach things with a certain brand of unbridled enthusiasm. It’s a Saturday in early November when I manage to connect with him in Los Angeles and, though we’re separated by more than a thousand miles, the author and photographer still manages to bring a frontman’s energy to this morning’s FaceTime. For the next hour, he gamely swings from topic to topic like Adam Lazzara, workshopping potential t-shirt ideas, weighing in on the bicoastal bagel wars, and wagging the finger at tech bros and their angel investors. No word yet on when I’ll be taking a diplomatic mission to Danzig’s house in Los Feliz, but watch this space for any and all updates.
A special thanks to former guest and friend of the ‘sletter Kim Taylor Bennett for bringing this one together.
DO: I’m waiting for a huge box via UPS that I may need to run down and intercept. But hopefully not. I don’t think anyone is going to steal it if it’s sitting out there. It’s like a 75-pound box.
ES: To be clear, this is a free Substack newsletter, so you can absolutely interrupt whenever you want.
DO: I understand but I respect the conversation and I don’t want to flake out on you… Also, I read your interview with Mitchell Wojcik over the summer. I don’t remember why, but I was thinking about him and something he shot for me, or maybe the gear he was using… Anyways, that came up — and I saw you did KTB, which is great, I need to read that one next.
ES: Oh thank you. I was actually thinking about Mitchell when I was preparing for this. I didn’t realize you were friends but I was looking at your photos and I noticed they were a little Wojcik-ian.
DO: That might have slipped in subconsciously. I’m not actively trying to shoot like Mitchell but I think he’s a great photographer. I had a chance to interview Jimmy Eat World at their record label office once, and Mitchell took some photos for it. We met up and he brought his camera, but he also brought this huge backdrop. Like he brought a big backdrop to the record label.Those things are like nine feet tall, you know? The security guard made us use the freight elevator to get into the building. But to his credit, Mitchell set the whole thing up. Jimmy Eat World gave us five minutes, he shot the whole thing. Snap. Snap. Snap. And he got sick photos. Also one of the guys from Jimmy Eat World, maybe Rick, had pink eye and you can see it in the photos…
ES: He’s like the Black Ops — in and out before the band even knows he’s there.
DO: I think a lot about photography. Anybody can take a picture but having a great body of work as a photographer means living a life that is conducive to it. To me, a great photography book is one where you look at a book of photos and think “This person’s life looks so much different from mine.” And I think Mitchell is like that in a way. Like, how did you meet Jimmy Eat World again? Where did you get this humongous backdrop?
ES: Bringing it back to Dan Ozzi, do you feel like your life is similar? I mean, you’re hanging with Jeff Rosenstock, writing books with Laura Jane Grace. You’re in these rooms!
DO: I think from the outside it appears I have an interesting life. Social media lets you curate things. Most of the time I’m just at the library, which is not super enthralling. But yes, I could see how social media might lead you to believe my life is more interesting than it actually is. Laughs.
ES: What is your favourite library when you’re hitting the books?
DO: I can’t say. Laughs. I get asked this every now and then in interviews and I don’t want to reveal it because I don’t want it to blow up. I’m gate-keeping the library system.
ES: We’re pro-gatekeeping at Human Pursuits.
DO: I was thinking recently that I want to make a shirt that says I ❤️ GATEKEEPING. Laughs. But yeah I go to this library by my house that is all arts and music and culture. It’s a great place to sit and write.
ES: Are you bringing food to this library? I know some places are pretty strict about that sort of thing.
DO: I used to bring a Thermos of coffee there, and one day I spilled it. It was so mortifying that I’ve had trouble bringing it back. The problem is, I always seem to get immediately famished the minute I walk in there. So I try to bring a sandwich and pretzels or something. I’ll take a break at the picnic tables outside and just scarf it down, maybe with a side of cheese, and then get back to work.
ES: I’m picturing you with some of L.A.’s finest geriatrics, eating sandwiches and learning about 80’s punk.
DO: This is a pretty hip library. I used to go to this other one where there were a lot more… This sounds mean, but there were more unhoused people. They would sit there for the day and just sleep. It was sort of relaxing in a way.
ES: You mentioned in our emails that you’re working on a new project. Is that why you’re going to this secret library at the moment?
DO: I just like going to the library to work. I feel like I get more focused work done. My apartment is fairly small, so writing and researching here makes me feel like there’s no separation between work and fuck-off time.
ES: Man, someone should try to capitalize on this idea: a third space where freelancers can go and get their work done. I think it would be extremely viable. Laughs.
DO: I know. I saw that viral TikTok about the third space. That dissolution, especially over the pandemic, of places you can go without having to spend money. Everything is so capitalist-focused now it sometimes feels like your only option is a coffee shop or a bar. It’s very depressing, and therefore I’m even more grateful for my beautiful secret library.
ES: You mentioned your apartment. I’ve been told there’s a legend of your place that I need to know about?
DO: Laughs. Yeah, a very famous murder happened in my house. It happened 100 years ago. The short end of it is that a guy caught his wife performing an oral act on his friend and — in a fit of passionate rage — shot both of them nine times. I don’t think he even served time. It was a time when, if you shot your wife, the authorities would wag their finger and say “C’mon man, don’t do that again.” But I think part of his defence was that he had shell shock coming out of World War I. And also he had just gotten a vasectomy that made him “hysterical” or something?
ES: We do not blame enough things on hysterics anymore.
DO: Male hysterics need to make a comeback. I need something to excuse my erratic behaviour. If I have to get a vasectomy, I will.
ES: 100%. The last time anything got hysterical was, really, around when Trump got elected and we were talking about hysterical women. But the hysterical man is underrated.
DO: We’re primed for a comeback. Men get your vasectomies. We can make this a trend.
ES: I feel like we’re on the verge of another t-shirt design.
DO: I want to open a shop similar to the ones that sell “Nasty Woman” and “Nevertheless She Persisted” merch but tailored specifically for men. Like, “I am NOT a hysterical man, I am a man who IS hysterical.”
ES: Remind me, were you born and raised in Los Angeles?
DO: No, I was born and raised in New York and moved here a little over 4 years ago.
ES: How are you liking it?
DO: It’s great. I’ve been thinking about a trip back East for the holidays but the thought of experiencing the sensation of cold again does not appeal to me.
ES: Why did you feel compelled to make the jump?
DO: I don’t know, I think I had hit a few walls in New York and thought there would be more open possibilities here. And there were. 11 months later there was a pandemic. I feel like I’ve been experiencing L.A. part two as things open up again.
ES: It seems like a great town if you want to hang out with music buds.
DO: There are a lot of really talented music friends out here for sure. The best part is that, unless they’re on tour, they are free to get tacos in the middle of the day, which is conducive to my lifestyle. I have a lot of under-employed — sorry, I mean musician — friends here. Jeff Rosenstock moved shortly after I did. Chris Farren is out here. Sarah Tudzin from Illuminati Hotties. Jeremy Bolm from Touche Amore lives down the block. I love it, because I deeply love having creative process conversations with people I respect.
ES: Oh and we’re gonna get to your process but first what is your go-to taco order these days?
DO: Well, when I said tacos just now, I was thinking about this place HomeState, which has all-day breakfast tacos. I’ll get this beef brisket one, and then maybe an egg and bacon and potato one.
ES: That reminds me of the bagel controversy that hit Twitter this week. Have you embraced scooped bagels since moving to L.A.? Or are you a traditionalist?
DO: What was the controversy? I’m sorry, I’m not up on bagel discourse.
ES: Basically this L.A. guy went into a NYC bagel shop and asked for a scooped, gluten-free bagel and they told him to fuck off. Laughs. He posted a video about it on TikTok saying “New York sucks” and the internet was like, actually you suck.
DO: Well, I will say that’s one area L.A. is lacking. They don’t know what the fuck they’re doing with bagels. There’s one good place by me called Belle’s Bagels — shout out to them — who do a great pastrami, egg, and cheese. But it’s so crowded because it’s so good and in New York, it would be a dime a dozen. The good bagel places here are few and far between. I wouldn’t trust anyone from L.A.’s opinion on them. Tacos? Sure. Bagels? Back of the line.
ES: Yeah the guy was getting dunked on all week. Or, for two days because that’s what a week feels like now.
DO: Yeah, four hours is an eternity in viral time.
ES: Let’s talk about processes though, because I’m also a process guy.
DO: Bit of a process guy!
ES: I’m a shitty process guy in that I know what works best for me, but I struggle to maintain it. How is it for you? I think I read somewhere that you tend to write earlier in the day.
DO: It’s funny because I do get up early. And I go to work early. I put in the hours. But the hard part is, I enjoy working late. My morning brain and my night brain work differently. In the morning, it’s bright out, you’re exposed, and I find that a challenging environment to create in. So in the morning, I’m editing stuff, or doing grunt work, whereas at night, when the sun goes down, you feel nice and safe in your dark little room, and I feel more comfortable being creative or expressing myself. The downside is, I’m very tired at that time, so my body is like “No thank you.”
ES: We’re basically polar opposites. I feel like I do my best writing in the morning, especially if I’ve just rolled out of bed and am still tired. I’m usually happiest with those results. If I write at night, it feels like pulling teeth, and I’m tired in a way that doesn’t feel fresh. I have 12 hours of living weighing me down and I usually wind up making a lot of mistakes. It’s especially stressful because I’m usually rushing on account of my shitty process. Laughs.
DO: One thing I’ve learned is that, the best time to work on a new idea, is when you first catch it. So, if there’s an article I want to write or whatever, my excitement level is at its highest when the idea first comes to me. The next day, it will be 50% of that. The next day it will be 25%, and so on. The best thing you can do is sit there and turn your brain upside down, sketch it out, no-wrong-answers, just fill the page. Get all the information out that you can, because your enthusiasm will diminish and it's hard to keep that up. If you give yourself a lot to work with, even if you don’t feel as passionately the next day, you might be more inclined to see it through because you did the groundwork.
ES: Absolutely. Also finishing to the best of your ability, when you’re in the zone. You hear so many stories about musicians who write a song in 20 minutes that becomes a massive hit…
DO: Totally, I’ve heard so many stories about amazing songs that just were a few minutes of work. I remember Billy Corgan wrote “Tonight, Tonight” quickly. Mark Hoppus told me “Dammit” was five minutes. The most important thing in an artist's career is often lightning in a bottle that they managed to capture.
ES: It’s interesting because, if you zoom out a little bit, it reflects the creative tension that exists between creatives and capitalism. Like, capitalism teaches you if you grind it out for eight or 13 hours a day, you will see better results. But creativity doesn’t follow that same logic. It might only take five minutes, but that could be the best five minutes of your career.
DO: Yeah and it’s something these frigging A.I. tech freaks cannot understand. It’s so funny seeing them talk online because they seem like non-playable characters. They don’t understand what art is, and they think they can earn it or life-hack it. Like, with photography, I’ll look on YouTube at photography channels. And the large majority of it, like any art form, is overtaken by these bros. And they’re just making videos about how to hack their camera to get the best photos. “If you get this camera and this gear and these settings, you can do this,” which has nothing to do with the actual craft. It’s how you see the world, it’s how you’re able to convey what you’re feeling in the medium. They don’t understand that. They just want to get to the quickest, easiest way, which is tied into this grindset mentality where they get better by virtue of prioritizing certain techniques, rather than substance.
ES: It feels like everything needs to be optimized now and I really can’t stand it. Like, art is not supposed to be optimal all the time. I think “Dammit” is a perfect example. Anyone can learn that song in a day, but it took Mark Hoppus five years of playing, performing, and recording in Blink-182 to achieve that result.
DO: You see it so often online. Someone will post their conversations with artists where they ask them to make a logo or whatever and the artist says “Sure that will be $500,” and the poster is all indignant, saying “How is that $500, it will take you 20 minutes!” They don’t realize they’re paying for the 20 years that person spent developing their craft, to the point that they had a style that resonates with audiences, and which presumably led to a person inquiring about their business in the first place. That’s what you’re paying for! It drives me nuts.
ES: It’s also annoying because it didn’t always feel like technology and art were at odds. Apple under Steve Jobs, for example, at least seemed to have an appreciation for art and craft, and it feels like that perspective has just eroded as the focus shifts to market share and angel investors and blah blah blah.
DO: Steve Jobs was also innovating and making things that might be considered art, whereas now I wonder if we’ve hit a wall with what we can do with technology. People are trying to put square pegs in round holes because they have no new ideas. And the growth mindset is also killing technology. Like, someone will design a simple app and suddenly there’s a bunch of VC money involved, and the goal is no longer to provide a service, it’s to grow the return for investors. You see it happening with Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. Like, Instagram is where I used to see my friends and what they were doing…
ES: You’re telling me you don’t want random big tittie goth girls in your feed?
DO: Oh my god they fucking love that. Instagram thinks I’m obsessed with hot, tattooed women and, like, camera porn.
ES: Dude, my explore page is just badly retouched photos from rock’n’roll history. Like Kurt Cobain, only he’s been so smoothed out he looks like Powder from the movie, Powder.
DO: I’m so scared of Instagram and that it will just show me these things forever. I’m worried that if I look at a Seinfeld meme, the app will spend two years showing me every bad Seinfeld meme that gets uploaded. There’s also this weird thing, that I don’t understand, where these accounts take clips from movies and put text over them as if the movie scene actually happened. Like, they’ll post that clip from Indiana Jones where he shoots the guy, and the text will say “Bro really brought a gun to a whip fight 😂.” Like, what the fuck is this? Do you understand this is a movie?
ES: Laughs. That’s so fucking funny. Also, I clearly don’t understand the internet anymore because are they making money off this? Is it just for clout?
DO: That’s the other thing! What do you get out of it? Is it just the growth mindset run amok?
ES: You write a lot about music but you seem to be interested in other stuff. What are your ambitions like — are you eventually going to write the great American novel?
DO: I don’t know. Everything really feels like it’s through the lens of music, or at least the culture that I grew up on. I’ve written maybe a quarter of a novel and it’s extremely music based. I wish I had it in me to write more openly but everything comes back to music or culture in some form. It’s a little bit frustrating but then again I know I could write a more authentic music novel because of my background than a lot of writers trying to casually do it
ES: It sounds like this is something you’re struggling with.
DO: No, because it’s not something I’m currently working on. I’m doing another non-fiction book. But if I were in that mindset I probably would be frustrated if it wasn’t coming fast enough.
ES: Can you tell me more about the book you’re writing? Or is that under wraps?
DO: We haven’t announced it yet but I’m helping somebody else with their memoir. I like that process if it’s a good fit, it’s a really rewarding endeavor, if somebody has a good story, to help them get it out.
ES: You helped Laura Jane Grace from Against Me! with her memoir. Do you usually have a pre-existing relationship with your memoir subjects? Or do you get to know them through the writing process?
DO: In this case, it was a little bit pre-existing but we’ve gotten to know each other much better through this process. It’s a pretty intimate thing. I wouldn’t do it for just anybody.
ES: I imagine you’re sort of like a living diary for them.
DO: I don’t know if this answers your question but something I think about a lot is that writing a book on somebody, or even writing a long profile on somebody that takes a long time, can do really strange things to your brain. I don’t know if other writers would agree with me, but you’re almost enamored with the person. You spend all day thinking about them. Like, even more than you would your partner or something. And you get to this place where you almost have some weird sense of love for the person. You feel like a stalker, or their biggest fan.
I remember when I was helping Laura with her book, at some point I was having dreams as her. Not even about her. I was her in the dream.
ES: Oh my god.
DO: It’s a lot of headspace to devote to one other person, which is why I say I wouldn’t do it for just anybody. Some people just ghostwrite books left and right and they take the pay cheque and that’s great. I don’t think I could do it like that. Although, if the pay cheque is good enough, maybe we can talk!
ES: I should ask: did you play music growing up?
DO: I have.
ES: This is a dumb question but have you ever been invited to jam with any of the people that you’re profiling? Laughs.
DO: No. Laughs. I went to Rosenstock’s house when he was recording his Craig of the Creek soundtrack and he let me play one note on bass. It was an “A” and it was a scratch track so it’s not even going to make the final version. But, you heard it here first, I played a single note on the Craig of the Creek score.
But no, I would embarrass myself. A lot of my friends are very talented. I think I would sully their music. I don’t ever jam with anybody, for their betterment, I would say.
ES: You talked about photography earlier. Has that always been an interest of yours?
DO: In 2018 I was working at the music site Noisey. In a lot of ways it was a dream job, but I was a little burnt out from writing about the same topic exclusively. Around that time, I was backing up photos off of my phone and I realized that I had seen a lot of cool things during my three years on the job. It wasn’t like I saw Nirvana’s first show or anything but I saw some bands who went on to get bigger, or who had maybe broken up, and I wished I had better photos to document it than the ones I took on my shitty iPhone 5. So I bought a Ricoh GR II. It’s very small and it fits in my pocket and I taught myself how to take better photos using it. Then I bought a Fuji. I haven’t really gone the film route, but I’ve gotten very into it.
I have my camera on me at all times. I’m usually not shooting anything but every once in a while I find something cool. I’m obsessive about it, about documenting things and backing up my photos. I don’t know what I’m ever going to do with any of it, but it doesn’t matter. Last summer I bought this book by Ed Templeton. He’s a skateboarder who had a camera on him and he made this body of work that is unreal. I’m sure he didn’t know what he was doing at the time. In the moment you’re just taking pictures, but it could be important later. Maybe all these little moments that I’m collecting will mean something in the future.
[Editor’s note: Dan’s new zine featuring 5 years worth of photos of The Armed is available for purchase here].
ES: Have you always had an inclination toward being an archivist? I’ve noticed that a lot of people in my family document things, for example, which feels kind of abnormal.
DO: I don’t know where it comes from because my family, but really my mom, hates being photographed. I’m the one with the camera, and it’s great because I get these pictures of my nieces, for example, and she loves it. But maybe it’s a product of age. When you’re young you want everything to go faster. I couldn’t wait to get out of school fast enough… But as you get older you want time to slow down. If I’m really analyzing it, maybe photography is a way of freezing the moment, because the older I get the more it feels like time is moving too fast and out of my control.
ES: I would say that’s a big part of the reason why I take photos. All of this, of course, leads to Danzig’s house. For those who are unfamiliar, what is Danzig’s house?
DO: Danzig’s house is a house located in Los Feliz, California, Los Angeles, that I believe Glen Danzig owned and still owns. But the house is abandoned. It’s falling apart and basically, the earth is swallowing it back, which is so funny because it’s in such a hip, pricey area. All the houses nearby are really nice. And in the middle of it all is this fucking haunted house.
ES: And this has become a bit of an obsession for you.
DO: When I first moved to Los Angeles, I was excited about everything, and I stumbled upon it. Like, “Oh wow that’s Danzig’s house, that’s so cool.” And I took a picture of it. Since then, whenever I’m walking past there with friends, I will get them to pose in front of the house. It’s just like what we were talking about. It started as this thing and now I have such a huge body of work with it, that I’m turning it into a photo book… It literally took four years of doing this until I realized it might be something. Sometimes the work tells you what it is, you know?
But yes, I just took a photo in front of it last night of this guy James Spooner, who has a book out called Black Punk Now. He did an event at this bookstore that is right around the block from Danzig’s house, so I took him there and snapped the picture.
ES: This is one of those jokes that gets funnier every time you do it.
DO: The thing is, it’s not a joke to me? I don’t know what it is. It’s not serious either. I’m very obsessed with this house. It’s fascinating. This is going to sound like a name drop but I’m friends with [Garbage’s] Shirley Manson and her husband Billy is also obsessed with this house. It’s funny because if you look at it from the side, too, the weeds are completely ensconcing this house… There’s that famous brick story that [writer] Justin Halpern put out on the internet, about how he lived next door to the house and Danzig had this pile of bricks that his neighbours asked him to move. That story has become part of Danzig’s lore.
ES: Maybe funny was the wrong word, but it clearly sparks joy for you.
DO: My friend Mikey Erg loves rock’n’roll tourism shit… I don’t really share that. But when I walk by Danzig’s house I have a weird connection to what he feels. When I drive past it, everybody in the car has to say “Mother!” It’s just one of the cooler landmarks Los Angeles has to offer.
ES: It’s also a landmark you have done a lot of great promotion for because I never once considered Danzig’s house before I started following you on Instagram.
DO: If anybody ever wants to take the Dan Ozzi tour of Los Angeles, if you pay me $25 I will take you by Danzig’s house and then we will go around the corner to this coffeeshop where they filmed the I Think You Should Leave sketch with the door that opens both ways. Hit me up in the DMs and we can do that.
ES: Don’t tempt me with a good time. Maybe we can get a breakfast taco after.
DO: I’d like to use your newsletter as a call to my friends. If you are my friend and you’re reading this and I haven’t taken your picture in front of Danzig’s house, can you please hit me up with a time to meet there? I would love to photograph you there!
Dan Ozzi is an author and photographer. He lives in Los Angeles.