Deanie Chen's Double Exposed Life
The music photog on touring with Lawrence, LA vs NYC, and how she found time to finish law school.
VANCOUVER – Deanie Chen answers my FaceTime from the back of a tour bus. It’s a Saturday morning in late August She was up most of the previous night editing photos of the band Lawrence, who’ve hired her to capture some of their opening performances for The Jonas Brothers. Dressed in black, she’s bright-eyed but subdued. She leans her iPhone against something when we talk and it falls over a couple of times during the interview, so that I’m staring directly at the tour bus ceiling. It’s funny, in part, because I think it speaks to where Deanie is at these days, to her ability to offer an interesting perspective.
While I was impressed first by the literal sparkle of her images – of the shiny, iridescent way she’s photographed the likes of Taylor Swift, Paramore, Lil Nas X, Maggie Rogers, and more – I was equally surprised to learn that, at the same time, she had completed law school at NYU. I had flashbacks to watching Almost Famous in my parent’s basement. Will Deanie’s work grace the cover of Rolling Stone? It remains to be seen. Still, our condensed and edited interview covered a lot of ground including Deanie’s early days in Kansas, this recent run with Lawrence, her odd working hours, why no one poops on the tour bus, her decision to go to law school, and reading Russian lit.
The result is sort of like a double exposure: multiple images converging onto a single plane to create something new. Part dream and part reality.
ES: Welcome to the newsletter!
DC: Thank you.
ES: Where are you right now?
DC: We are currently in a parking lot in Chicago. We played a show at Wrigley Field. We have an off day today so we’re just kind of parked in the city. We’re right by Soldier Field – I think there’s a Bears game happening soon – and then we go to St. Louis tomorrow.
ES: Julia from Ratboys was telling me it was stupid hot out there. Like 116°F?
DC: We got here the day after that. Yesterday the high was like 86°F. Still really hot but thankfully we missed the heatwave.
ES: What was Lawrence’s show at Wrigley like? That must have been cool.
DC: A bunch of the band are huge baseball fans so I think they enjoyed that aspect of it. We had to play a bit of a shorter set because The J-Bros have gone over time in their set basically every night. Normally if you go past venue curfew you get fined but Wrigley just pulls the plug. They were really strict. The set was cut down from 40 minutes to 30, but it’s great. Everyone’s so nice. I just love Chicago and being back in the Midwest.
ES: Are you a big sports fan yourself or is that not your area?
DC: I am, although I’m not a baseball fan. Basketball was always cooler to me.
ES: Who are your teams?
DC: I’m from Kansas, so the Chiefs, and I also really like Kansas University for college basketball. I’m also randomly a fan of the Sacramento Kings, which is sad.
ES: How the hell do you become a fan of the Kings?
DC: One of my favourite players from KU got drafted to the Kings after he graduated. He’s no longer there, but that was the first time I followed an NBA team and I’ve stuck with them ever since.
What about you – where are you from?
ES: I’m from Edmonton originally, but I’ve lived in Vancouver for almost a decade.
DC: I’ve never been to Vancouver. We always play shows in Toronto and Montreal, but Vancouver often gets skipped.
ES: We do. Compared to Edmonton we get a lot more shows, but it’s not the same. I think I moved here with big city dreams, thinking we’d get every tour but the reality is a lot of the big tours will go to Seattle instead.
DC: How far away is Seattle?
ES: Like three hours? It’s far enough that you can’t really do it on a weeknight.
DC: Also not something you can do on a whim.
ES: Exactly. It takes a lot of planning. When you’re 25 you think you’ll do it all the time but when you’re old and 32 it seems less appealing.
DC: I feel like I talk a big game but I wouldn’t do it.
ES: Plus you get to go on tour which is way more fun. Speaking of which, I can’t help but notice you’re on a pretty nice tour bus.
DC: Yeah it’s really nice. It’s a newer bus, I think. This is the first full tour I’ve been on, in the sense that every bunk is taken. Usually, there are one or two ‘junk bunks’ that are empty. There’s 12 of us. We’re fully at capacity. This back lounge that I’m in has backpacks and bags everywhere. But it’s a good home. Sleeping on the bus can be hit or miss. People either love it or hate it, but I really like it. I love my tiny coffin bed.
ES: Laughs. I wanted to ask about your routine on the road. Some people need that structure and some people really don’t. Are you going where the road takes you? Or are you trying to maintain a semblance of reality?
DC: I’m really bad at maintaining routine at all, ever, in my life. I think that’s why touring is a good trait for my job, specifically. Photography is very unique in that my schedule is flipped from everyone else’s. When the band is done performing, my work starts. I was up until 4 or 5 a.m. last night. And then I just get up when I need to. Sometimes I’ll get to sleep in or take a nap but it really depends.
Routine-wise, everything sort of centers on the show. The show is always at the same time, soundcheck is usually at the same time. That little bit of structure is enough to keep me sane. But I feel like some people are really rigid and you can’t be like that on tour. If things are set a certain way, they’re almost certain to get put out of whack. So I prefer to keep my expectations loose.
ES: I was thinking about your job this morning – do you get a rider on tour the way that bands do? Or how does that work?
DC: I don’t get my own, but each band will get a rider, and I’m part of Lawrence’s camp. As the opening act, we’re usually the lower priority. Yesterday we didn’t get our rider until 6 p.m.
ES: Interesting – I just don’t want you to be out there fighting for scraps of hummus.
DC: Oh no, it’s good. This is the second tour I’ve been on that has catering, which is really nice. The tour I was on before this in May, we only had our rider and we’d order or pick up food all the time. Having food at the venue is really helpful, especially for me because I get so frazzled that food is usually the last thing on my mind. It’s easier to go to catering and grab something and eat.
ES: You’re kind of giving girl-who-works-so-hard-she-forgets-to-eat and is then wondering why she feels terrible.
DC: Laughs. I am guilty of that sometimes.
ES: Can we circle back on how you’re touring with 11 other people right now?
DC: Yeah so I’m touring with 11 people. The bunks are in a row of 3 by 3. Lawrence itself is just two people – Clyde and Gracie, who are siblings – but the band they travel with is six other people. Drummer, bassist, guitarist, trumpet player, a sax player, and another sax player.
ES: Double sax?!
DC: It’s actually incredible. They play everything live. Someone is making every sound you hear.
There’s also a sound guy, a guy who does their visuals, and a girl who does lighting. And then the bus driver.
ES: That’s such a trip. I thought living in the city was cramped.
DC: I don’t mind it. It’s weird because I’m an only child so I’m used to having space. But I also think touring is self-selecting. A certain type of person likes it and chooses to do it. I also think everyone who chooses to tour brings a baseline level of thoughtfulness. You’re spending so much time with other people, you have an understanding of when people need space or how to balance with everyone else. Photography is a lonely job because everything you do is often separate from everyone else, so I get plenty of alone time in the late hours.
ES: It’s just you and Lightroom at that point.
DC: Me, Lightroom, my scanner, just waiting for Polaroids to upload.
ES: Is it hard to photograph a band of Lawrence’s size? I imagine it could make for really busy scenes.
DC: I try to take in the energy or vibe of whatever band I’m working with. For Lawrence, I don’t do as many minimal, moody shots. It’s a lot more active and alive because that’s their energy. Most of the time it isn’t too hard to compose the shot. Clyde is the lead singer and he’s in the middle and behind a keyboard the whole time, so that’s a little hard because he gets obstructed by the others. But other than that, the only thing that changes is the amount of selects I send out every night.
When I was touring with Holly Humberstone, she was a one-person show. She looped everything live and it was just her on stage. I’d send maybe 20 photos per set, which I think is normal. But when seven people are on stage, I send 80 to 90 photos per set.
ES: You mentioned Polaroid – is that all you’re using or are you balancing it out with a DSLR?
DC: I usually have five cameras on my body. If you see a photo of me working, I look like a wind chime. Two DSLRs, a point-and-shoot film camera, an SLR film camera, a dad-cam camcorder, and a Polaroid. They’re all hanging off my body.
ES: So what you’re saying is you have unbelievable core strength.
DC: Or that I am constantly shrimp-shaped.
But I love Polaroid. It’s so fun to shoot and I find artists love it. There’s something you can’t put into words about it. Having something physical immediately.
ES: That instant gratification was huge for me when I first took pictures. I basically started on Polaroid.
DC: It’s really helpful for commercial shoots, too. For showing proof-of-concept on set. I hate shooting tethered and having my camera attached to a computer and then watching. It’s way better to be able to move around. And Polaroids can help show your framing and aesthetic in a functional, easy way.
ES: Do you also develop your own film on tour then?
DC: No, I have a list of film labs that I’ve collected over the years and I’ll get them to do it. I’ve heard of one photographer who allegedly develops her own film in the tour bathroom. Which I think is mildly terrifying. Like, where are the chemicals going?
I don’t know if you know this about the bus, but you can’t shit on the tour bus.
ES: I did not know that. Laughs.
DC: This is a cardinal rule of tour. It’s really funny because any artist that you see who basically isn’t traveling by private jet is constipated. No one is pooping because you can’t poop on the bus. There’s nowhere for it to filter and it might affect the air or something like that. No toiler paper or other products can go down the toilet
ES: Just double-checking, you went to law school right? Like, you don’t have to live like this?
DC: Laughs. That’s going to be me in a month and I’m going to hate it.
ES: Really? Let’s come back to that, I need to hear more about the facilities.
DC: Basically you can’t do anything but pee in the toilet. So putting chemicals down the toilet seems… like that can’t be good for anyone else. And what if people need to use the bathroom? Anyway, I haven’t confirmed this but I’m impressed if someone can do it.
ES: It seems high-risk for relatively little reward. Like, there are film labs available.
DC: Yeah but it might be faster.
ES: Also aren’t these bathrooms pretty small?
DC: Yeah it’s like an airplane bathroom.
ES: How are you feeling about being a lawyer?
DC: I’m not feeling quite positive about it. I’ve never wanted to be a lawyer, so it’s not something I’ve looked forward to. Based on what you know about me from this conversation, I think it’s clear that being in a corporate setting is not ideal. I don’t love being in the office.
Lawrence is on tour with the Jonas Brothers for 65 shows but I’m hoping off after a month. I’ll do the show in L.A., and spend a couple of days there before I go back east. I have to fly to Chicago to start orientation at my new law firm, and then I start work.
ES: Sorry if this information is out there, but why are you going to law school if it’s not something you want to do?
DC: I’ll give you the whole back story. My parents are both immigrants. They worked so hard to get where they are, and they’ve always wanted me to have a stable career. I went to USC in L.A. and I majored in Economics. Like, very practical. I hated it, but I said “I’m going to go to law school because that’s what my parents want.”
I picked up photography in my second year of college and just started doing it for fun. I never thought it would be a career, it was a hobby. I got to go to concerts for free and make art. Like, that’s sick, you know? As I finished my degree, things picked up. I had done the whole schpiel to get into law school because you need to start the process early. I had taken the LSAT, I had a good GPA and I got into law school in the fall of 2019, which was my senior year at USC. I was set up to go, but then my friend Max asked me to go on tour with him.
I was so excited. The tour was slated for May 2020. I talked to my parents and said “Here’s my compromise: I’ll go to Columbia Law School because they can defer my scholarship. Just let me live my dream full-time for one year.” Obviously, we know what happened in 2020. [When COVID hit] I thought “This is a sign.” My first big break and it didn’t happen. I didn’t have any backup plan. My parents were like “Just go to law school – you can figure it out later.” So I decided to go to NYU instead because I wanted to be in downtown Manhattan, close to everything, close to all the music. By the time the world was reopening, I had already finished my first year, which was the most difficult. I’m also the type of person where, once I commit to something, I kind of have to see it through.
When I moved to New York I thought my photography would die out. My first big break fell through, I didn’t have any clients in the city. Functionally, the likelihood of me continuing this as a career seemed pretty low. I was ready to accept that and become a lawyer. But after the pandemic, I got lucky, and my work picked up even more. I was balancing law school and my photography career until I graduated. I have some student loans I need to pay off. I want to start my photography career debt-free so the best and easiest thing I can do is work at a law firm for a year… It may not be something I’m genuinely thrilled to do, but sometimes you have to temper your dreams with reality.
ES: Thank you for being so honest about all of this. I feel like this is a perspective you don’t hear all that much from people in creative fields.
DC: I really try to be open with it, because people often talk about both professions like it’s something you need to be 100% committed to… I’ve always felt this pressure, as if I'm not a true artist because I can’t dedicate myself fully to photography. And I think other artists put that pressure on themselves as well. So I try to show people you can do both. It’s not necessarily great for my sleep schedule or sanity, but if you want something bad enough, you can make it happen.
ES: A recurring theme across the newsletter is that a lot of the artists I talk to have other jobs. I think that’s an important side of the story to share. It’s not all taking pictures for Taylor Swift. At the same time, I think when you have pursuits that you care about, it doesn’t feel like work. Like, it’s more energizing than working at a law firm.
DC: When you find what you’re passionate about, there’s no feeling like it. It’s a high that I can’t explain.
ES: You mentioned that your career exploded after moving to New York. Was there anything specific that sparked that?
DC: Not really. I think after the pandemic everything came back full force, but I also dove in head first. The first year I was there I shot like 100 shows. I was so happy to be back. I also think there are fewer music photographers in New York than there are in Los Angeles. New York has a lot of fashion photographers.
ES: That’s interesting, I would have assumed it was equal.
DC: In my experience, there’s slightly less. In L.A., people also have cars and can drive farther out for work. In New York, most people are taking the train to shows. It’s more local. I feel like people aren’t fighting for jobs the same way because people aren’t driving in from other places to work.
ES: How has living in New York inspired your work?
DC: New York has been one of the most inspiring places I’ve lived. It’s a hustle and a grind, which can be good and bad, but I think there’s a level of grit and honesty in people that I’ve met there that exists to a lesser extent in L.A. In Los Angeles, there’s more pressure to appear as if you’re having a great time. New York has less of that. A lot of the interactions I’ve had have felt more immediate and genuine. I’ve connected with people there better. There’s also so much art and inspiration hitting you from all directions. It has inspired me to be more experimental with my photography, exploring different types of photography.
When I lived in L.A. I also didn’t have a car. I would Uber everywhere.
ES: Oh my god. Laughs.
DC: I know. So moving to New York gave me a level of agency that I’ve never had before. It’s a more accessible city and being independent, being able to go anywhere, wherever, has helped me feel more human and more adult.
ES: Where did your parents immigrate from?
DC: Mainland China. They’re both a little older, so they grew up during The Cultural Revolution and immigrated right after that. My dad’s from Shanghai and my mom’s from Beijing.
ES: Did they go to Kansas right away?
DC: Yes. It’s a random story. My dad was applying to Master’s and Ph.D. programs in English here in the U.S. He was so poor he could only apply to schools with no application fee. Kansas University was one of them, and that’s how I spent the first 18 years of my life in Kansas.
ES: I’m guessing you always knew you wanted to go to one of the coasts at some point?
DC: I knew I wanted to leave Kansas. My parents love it, it’s quiet and comfortable. But the lifestyle wasn’t for me. There’s this whole Ring-by-Spring mentality; people go to college in-state and then they try to get engaged before the spring of their senior year. They get married and then settle down where they grew up. They’re happy doing that, and there’s nothing wrong with it. I wish I could find genuine enjoyment in doing that. But I’ve always known it wasn’t for me. I had no desire to just get married and settle down. I wanted to try and live in a city, and I knew I really wanted to go to L.A.
ES: It’s funny, I’ve said similar things before and people sometimes find it condescending. Like I genuinely think it would be easier to live somewhere other than Vancouver or Toronto, but I also think I would genuinely experience some sort of spiritual death.
DC: Laughs. I know, like objectively it would be a great life. But it gives me the heebie-jeebies.
ES: The anxiety I felt when you said Ring-by-Spring! How is your dating life on tour, by the way?
DC: I have a pretty strict no-dating while working policy. When I get in work mode I am really serious about it. I can’t do any distractions. Dating on the road is a lot of calling or texting, which I have no interest in doing. I’m not great at texting and I’m on my phone so much for work that when I have downtime I want to sit and talk to people in real life. I also have a strict no-hookups with tour members policy.
ES: Don’t shit where you eat.
DC: Yeah, I already have some insecurities about being a woman on tour. People have asked me “Who are you sleeping with?” before, or there will be bands who don’t want to take female crew members on the road because their girlfriends will get jealous. So I feel like if I stay straight-edge about it, it will validate that I’m here to work. Which is a stupid reason – that I should need to justify it to myself. But I think the no-hookups-on-tour mantra is great.
ES: The running thread of our conversation has been that you work really hard. What do you do to relax? Do you relax?
DC: I’m a pretty go-go-go person. I need to work on it. I feel immense guilt when I’m not doing something productive, and I often feel like I’m not fully committed to any part of my life. I’m doing two jobs and I don’t feel like I’m doing either side 100%. I always feel stressed.
ES: I’m sensing that.
DC: But music has always been a safe haven for me. And I’m always reading. Like, incessantly. A physical book is so special to me. I can unplug. Put me away in the corner and I’ll read all day. The only time I get rest is December-January. There’s less work in those months. For the past few years, around that time is the only time I really get rest. Last year I didn’t go home for Christmas and I literally stayed in bed and read for a week straight. That’s my way of recharging. But there’s not a lot of relaxation time.
I’ll also sit and watch people play video games. Some of the people I’m touring with are obsessed with the new NHL game and I’m very happy to sit there and watch them play. It’s entertaining for me.
ES: It sounds like a lot of those are situations where you’re not making decisions or have to be on.
DC: I don’t want to think, I just want to chill.
ES: You just want to be there. What books did you bring on tour?
DC: I brought The Master and Margarita. It’s a funny Russian book satirizing the Soviet elite. It follows the Devil and his groupies. I’m not very deep into it. But it’s absurd. I also just picked up Despair by Nabokov. I read Lolita for the first time recently and I loved it, which is a little weird to say but I also think the media has done him dirty. His writing style is really good. Very smooth.
Deanie Chen is a photographer. She lives in New York.
Wow, what can't she do! Deanie is such an inspiration!