Laura Cappe thinks you should hear this (Human Pursuits 14/10/22)
The Toronto music manager on authentic artists, literary leanings, and some of the year's best new music
VANCOUVER – Laura Cappe could’ve easily ignored my email.
It was the winter of 2013, and I had written her out of the blue, asking if she had any advice for someone looking break into the music industry. I was a 23-year-old Psych major who spent his afternoons clerking for Canada Post and his weekends serving chicken cutlets at the nearby convention centre. I lacked most marketable skills but I made up for in bravado and big dreams. Or so I told myself. In any case, Laura didn’t seem to mind. She helped me land a brief-but-formative internship at Toronto-based Nevado Records and, in doing so, inadvertently sparked my career.
Talk about a lasting impression.
Ten years later, my respect for Laura has only grown. Along with managing acts like Loony, Flower Face, and Freida Mari, she is also the occasional author of the newsletter Keep Each Other Healthy. Our conversation, which has been edited and condensed for clarity, covers some of Laura’s literary leanings, her She-E-O grindset, ‘90s authenticity, her love of sleep and so much more.
LC: I really admire you for being so consistent with your newsletter. I fell off completely.
ES: You were so much more consistent than I was at the start. I remember thinking “Oh my God, Laura's got this figured out,” because I was struggling at the time. It was like, “How do I be consistent with this?” And I still don't feel very consistent, to be honest. I think I’m close to figuring out a way that I can make it sustainable and avoid burn out, but yeah, I really admired Keep Each Other Healthy. I know I said that all the time when you were doing it…
LC: Thank you. That means a lot.
What happened with me was, I got COVID and it was not good. I was really sick and it took me out of the routine and I just haven't gone back. But I'm feeling the itch. I feel like I should start it up again. It's weird. I just don’t know what the approach is.
ES: You had mentioned [back in 2020] that you had brain fog. How are you doing with that?
LC: Knock on wood, I'm good right now, but I did end up getting COVID two more times after that.
ES: Oh naur.
LC: Not a good time. And I had brain fog for probably like a week or two after my recovery each and every time. But it’s subsided, thankfully.
ES: I think I've had COVID twice as well. The second time I caught it at Dua Lipa, which was arguably worth it…
(Editor’s note: at this moment, Stu the cat jumped onto the desk and interrupted the Zoom call, prompting Laura and I to lose track of the conversation.)
ES: You're a really good writer. Is it something you’ve always had an inclination towards?
LC: First off, that means so much you have no idea. I love writing. When I was a kid, that was all I did.I just wrote stories. There was this really cute printing press at my elementary school and I took complete advantage of it. I would go into that printing press room and… I probably pumped out like seven books a year.
ES: That’s so funny. The first story I ever wrote was in elementary school too. It was about a glass of milk and a chocolate chip cookie who became friends. People really liked it.
LC: That's actually really strange, because I wrote a story about a cow named Andy who only produced chocolate milk.
ES: What the fuck.
LC: This is really embarrassing, but, when I was little, I was a child model. And I went on this talk show which was pretty big in Canada, back in the ‘90s, called The Dini Petty Show.
ES: I haven't heard of that.
LC: It was for the mothers (laughs). But I made it down the runway. And then Dini Petty stopped me and she's like “Wow. When you're older, I could totally see you having my job. Is that what you want to be with you when you grow up? Do you wanna have your own talk show?”
And I said, “No, I wanna be a writer.”
ES: And the crowd just cheered?!
LC: No. But I feel like I need to do that to appease my younger self.
ES: That's 100% why I also do the newsletter. I think about that silly chocolate chip cookie milk story like once a month… So do you read a lot when you’re on the road?
LC: I have to say, I used to be a massive reader. I grew up reading a book a week. [Then] I majored in English in university and that kind of just sucked the life out of me. I think I just read too many books at once and the fun of it just kind of deteriorated. So I feel like I have some PTSD from university. But it's interesting that you asked me this question now because lately I've been on a bit of a kick…
One thing that I've always done, and it's kind of become a bad habit, is, whenever I travel, whenever I go somewhere new, I have to go to a bookstore. And I always buy something. Always. The only issue is that I don't always read it. So you have to see my bedroom. It's just like stacks and stacks of books… I could probably open my own bookstore. But I’ve read about six books this year.
ES: That's really good. There’s that statistic that I’ve seen floating around the internet that says most adults after university never read another book in their life. (Editor’s note: after the interview, I Googled this idea and it’s highly debated and probably wrong. Who knew.) It's funny because Leah was also an English major and she has had the same issue [in terms of post-secondary PTSD]... I think part of the issue is that university doesn't really teach you how to find what you actually like to read.
LC: I don’t know. I did have the flexibility to study different genres and types of literature, which I did really appreciate. But you're not wrong. You are forced to read the curriculum.
ES: To me, it’s kind of like music in the sense of… sometimes you need to know what you like before you can actually dive into it. Like, in the pandemic, I was missing society and culture, and I suddenly got really into dance music. But obviously dance music is a massive genre and I don't like all of it… It took me a while to figure out that I don’t like EDM but I do like house music.
LC: The expansiveness of music generally makes me feel very overwhelmed. Because I like what I like and I know what I know. But I also know… there's so much to discover. And that's exciting, but it's also overwhelming. Lately, I’ve just really wanted to learn more about music history. I’ve been on a real learning kick, amidst my overwhelm, because it's been crazy with work. But I’m trying.
ES: In terms of music history… what sort of things are you wanting to learn about?
LC: I fell in love with this podcast [from The Ringer] called 60 Songs That Explain the '90s. I’m so, so in love with it and it really opened my mind to ‘90s music history. Obviously. I lived through it in a small way. I was a child [at that point]. But I definitely have a deeper connection to that decade than any prior. So I'm starting there and what I'm trying to do is find as many copies of Rolling Stone magazine from the ‘90s, so I can have an authentic experience, if you know what I mean.
ES: You should look for Spin magazine too. Rolling Stone is cool and I have developed more of an appreciation for them lately. But Spin. or even iD, is a better representative of like the ‘90s and that sort of culture, in my opinion.
How does your love and appreciation for the ‘90s influence the the advice that you give to your artists? Like Loony doesn't have much of a ‘90s aesthetic in my mind…
LC: Sonically and aesthetically, no it doesn't. It’s more of a general ethos… I find that so many artists in the ‘90s… [had] this level of authenticity that doesn't exist as much now. I really try to drill that into all of my clients' minds… Obviously [they can] use all the tools available to [them]... but just be yourself. I know that sounds so cheesy. But that is a very ‘90s mentality in my mind.
ES: Were you looking for that authenticity with [the three acts you currently manage]? Is that something that you try to prioritize?
LC: Absolutely. With management, it's all about the connection and obviously you have to love the music, but I like working with artists that really understand who they are and what they believe in because there are so many artists that don't.
ES: That was one of my main takeaways from my internship at Nevado. Seeing how Nick basically wanted artists who were fully developed by themselves before he came in and tried to help them reach that next level.
LC: I work with so many artists now I can't keep track. I think I work directly with 20… They're all over the world… Sydney, Australia. Another from London, England. Another from Berlin, Germany. A lot from L.A. From New York…
ES: This is an obnoxious question, but do you actually make money doing this?
LC: I mean, I have a [salaried position as well] now.
ES: Oh?
LC: Yeah, so I have three jobs. It kind of just happened. I worked for a record label. I left the label, started a management company… I've been independently managing, let's say, since 2018. Was that making a lot of money then? No. But every year I would make more. So I was like, “OK, let's keep going. The lights are still on.”
Then in 2019 I started School Night in Toronto, with my friend Adam… We were just booking shows every month, giving developing artists a spotlight, a place to showcase in Toronto. It was great. I had those two jobs. I was a manager and I did the School Night thing. Then the pandemic happened and just wiped away everything… We had some really big tours and festivals in the books and there were some nice price tags next to them and we lost a lot of money in a very short amount of time. It was then that I really questioned if I even wanted to be in music anymore. Because I mean… the well was dry. It just was a disaster.
But then I ended up signing one of my clients to Nettwerk Music Group… We really loved working together and they asked me if I wanted to work for them. I figured “My business has been obliterated, so let's go.”
ES: You might be the hardest working woman in Canadian show business.
LC: I feel very lucky that Nettwerk wanted to take a chance on me. Most people at the label come from more corporate label backgrounds. I'm like… scrappy as hell. I've only gone by my processes. Even when I was managing the other labels, they were all so indie and DIY.
ES: Can you remind me, [is Nettwerk] based out of Germany?
LC: No… they were founded in Vancouver. Terry McBride, who's the founder and president, he's brilliant. He blows my mind as a human. He managed and shaped the careers of Sarah McLachlan, Avril Lavigne, Sum 41, Coldplay. Really iconic, important artists and he's just he's so kind and open to sharing knowledge. But he [and his friends, who are also founders], grew this company to what it is. I think it might be the biggest indie, or at least one of them.
ES: How do you not get sick of music when you work in music?
LC: I don't think I have an answer for that really… It's like when you fall in love with someone and you're just like, “I hope I I love you forever.” Sometimes you fall out of love and sometimes it sticks forever. And I think that's my relationship with music… I don't think I will ever fall out of love with it because I get so excited when I hear something that I love. It's new and it's fresh and I become obsessive... I've been through some shit in this industry. I've been dragged through mud. It sounds cheesy and it sounds romantic, but it's the actual music that keeps me in it.
ES: Do you think the industry has changed much since the Me Too movement?
LC: It’s changed a little bit. I think people are talking about bad behavior more, but the bad behavior still exists. Companies are now prioritizing hiring more women, and BIPOC employees, which is important, but… I don't know, the bullshit still exists. The shitty people still exist, and you just kind of have to deal with it unfortunately.
I think there's more of a support system now. That's what's changed. Like, women are now talking more to each other which I think is probably the most important change. For the longest time we were all kind of bottled up.
ES: There was an interesting interview with Karen O in Vulture recently where she talked about trying to get advice from [Blondie’s] Debbie Harry and it not going so well. Have you had any female role models in the music industry that have maybe helped you navigate things, or do you feel like you've mostly been left to your own devices?
LC: When I was really going through the worst time in the industry, I didn't have anyone. Some people who I thought had my back ended up just telling my stories and not in a supportive way. Good dinner talk, you know, it's gossip. I feel it's definitely changed now. I have so many people that I can turn to. I'm very lucky. But that wasn’t always the case. And I think it's because I was so young. I didn't really know anyone in the industry.
I did have one boss, Evan Newman, at Outside Music, who was so lovely and made me feel really safe. But I wouldn't go to him with the big things… Like when I worked for Jian Ghomeshi..
ES: I forgot that you had a Gomeshi connection.
LC: Oh, I certainly did… I was 22 and I was his assistant. I lasted six weeks and then I quit so hard… My dad and I listened to him all the time. We were huge, huge fans… I was so impressed with him and I wanted to work for Q so badly because I just thought it was the most brilliant show.
I'll tell you how I got the job… It was a live taping at the CBC in Toronto. Bon Iver and The National. They both played and then they both did interviews. And after the show I went up to Jian, like, so ballsy. I said “I love your show, I want to work for you.” And he was like “Oh, amazing. I could use someone like you. You can talk to my assistant over here. We'll get you a job.”
ES: Wow. What?!
LC: That's literally how it happened. I will never forget that he said “I could use someone like you” after 10 seconds. One day, I will publish that story.
ES: Going back to music being an obsession. Is there anyone you’re currently obsessed with that you don’t have a professional relationship with?
LC: I love the new Alvvays record. I used to work with them though so that might not count… Do you know Fred Again? I'm so in love with him. Oh my god. He packages happiness. Also, Reneé Rapp. She’s an actress who is signed to Interscope. She's put out three singles, but like her voice, her writing, it's kind of like Olivia Rodrigo meets Lea Michele… Her voice is very Broadway. I have a weak spot for that.
What are you listening to right now that you love?
ES: I mean, I always love The 1975. I feel like, outside that, all of my favourite albums of the year are by women. Charli XCX. The new Beyoncé album is as good as everyone says it is…
LC: Alex G. Have you heard his record?
ES: I have it saved on my Spotify. I haven't listened to it yet.
LC: Also good, but sorry I interrupted you.
ES: Oh no, that's fine. None of my stuff is very interesting. Maggie Rogers, Steve Lacy. That MUNA album is really good. Wet Leg – which I know is a little divisive.
LC: Is it divisive? I feel like everyone loves it.
ES: On TikTok it is!
LC: I'm a little confused [by that band].
ES: How so?
LC: Because I've heard them before. You know what I mean? I’ve heard people play those songs and write those words before. It's such an interesting case study… I like them but I don’t understand how they became so successful… No shade to them, it's amazing. I'm just like how did they break through versus all of these other amazing bands were basically doing the same thing?
ES: Yeah, I genuinely don't know… My best guess is that it's sort of ironic and inoffensive and just kind of appeals to a wide swath of people, whereas other acts maybe don't have that commercial appeal?
One band I always associated with you is Haim, because I remember that was something we bonded over early on. Did you see Licorice Pizza? I need to know what you thought of it.
LC: I love Paul Thomas Anderson… but I was underwhelmed.
ES: Same. I thought it was super boring and really long. The Haim sisters were good, but even Alana couldn’t save it.
LC: There were a couple of scenes that I just thought were over the top fluff and filler, and it really took me out of the film… It could have been great. It just fell short, in my opinion… I thought it was a nice portrait of Los Angeles, for sure, but I don't know. I tried watching it again on a plane and turned it off.
ES: If the movie is more boring than staring at some clouds, you have a problem.
LC: Exactly. I did just discover Alana Haim’s podcast with Sasha Spielberg. She just released it. It's really funny.
ES: OK…mostly a joke question… but I feel like we've bonded over a love of sleep. What’s the routine looking like?
LC: It’s all over the place, man… I go to bed, probably too late. Always after midnight. I wake up, probably around 8 a.m., even though I really try to wake up before then. It's impossible for me. I love sleep so much, and I need it so much that I will sacrifice other things. Going for a walk, exercising, reading. I need sleep. If I don't sleep, I'm not going to have a productive day.
ES: Laura needs to be productive.
LC: I need to be productive. So sleep is number one.
Laura Cappe is a music manager and occasional newsletter author. She lives in Toronto, Canada.