Ratboys (Are Back In Town)
Julia Steiner on the band's new album, working with Chris Walla, why she loves Chicago, and more.
VANCOUVER — I’m on the number 16 bus the first time I hear the title track of Ratboys’ forthcoming album, The Window. It’s 29°C in the shade and I’m scrolling Twitter to distract myself: from the beads of sweat on my forehead, from the shirt sticking to my back, from the diffusion of B.O. wafting from the seats around me. I’m tired. All I want is to get home to Leah and Stu and our portable air conditioner but, instead, the bus is idling outside the Indigo on Granville Street.
From his bead-covered front seat, I hear the driver speak.
“We’re here 3 minutes folks.”
It’s been a long day in an even longer week and I’m so hungry that I can barely see. I only have the mental bandwidth for passive consumption. I don’t want to think about or decide on anything. I just want whatever can distract me from this traveling sardine can and the fact that it is 29°C in the shade. So far, my lizard-like response has meant listening to empty white noise on my AirPods. But I see Chris Walla tweeting about a new Ratboys song, so I click the link and hit play. It finishes and I hit play again… and again… until suddenly I’m home.
If that isn’t the sign of a Proper Chune, I don’t know what is.
While the band — Julia Steiner (guitar, vocals), Dave Sagan (guitar), Marcus Nuccio (drums) and Sean Neumann (bass, vocals) — has been cooking for years, I’ve only recently come around on them. And so I decide to shoot them an email.
Our conversation, which has been edited and condensed for clarity, started an hour late because I mixed up the time. Still, it couldn’t have gone any better. Julia and I chatted about the band’s touring ambitions, their decision to work with Chris Walla on The Window, and her favorite Tegan and Sara records, as well as her relationships with her family, and why she loves Chicago. We also talked Italian Beef sandwiches, lyrical easter eggs, and what makes a good band t-shirt.
As if you need any other reason to read on, I’ll leave you with what Chris Walla wrote that hot June day:
ratboys are supremely in tune with their own music, which is less common than you might expect. [The Window] is neither effortless nor calculated — it’s just ‘right’, like it’s always been there and now you need it and here it is.
ES: I’m so sorry to keep you waiting, here I was thinking I was on time and I was actually late!
JS: All good dude, I’ve been there.
ES: We’re just in the middle of cat-sitting so my life has been a little scrambled this week.
JS: Oh wow that’s fun – what kind of cat?
ES: It’s my fiancée’s sister’s cat. I don’t know what breed he is exactly but he’s sort of like a Maine Coon. Just a massive black cat. He’s a year old and they have him leash trained so I’ve been taking him out for walks.
JS: Oh my god, I’ve never done that.
ES: But how are you - how’s Chicago today?
JS: I’m good! I was at Pitchfork Festival the last couple of days, which was really fun. There was a freak rainstorm, but the weather for the weekend's second half was great. Yesterday was a beautiful summer day filled with music. Tonight Kurt Vile is playing a free show at Millenium Park downtown so I think we’re going to try and go down for that.
ES: How has Chicago been with “Canadian” wildfire smoke this summer? I know Toronto and other cities were hit pretty bad last month.
JS: It was pretty bad there for a few days back in late June. It was weird because on the radio they were saying “Chicago has the worst air quality in the world today,” but then I Googled Detroit and Cleveland and they were worse. It was bad though. I was driving downtown and you couldn’t see the skyline from the highway.
ES: That’s such a gross feeling.
JS: I know.
ES: But it seemed like Pitchfork Festival was a lot of fun this year.
JS: It was. It was my first time going, which is crazy because I’ve lived here since 2014. I wasn’t avoiding it or anything, we’re often out of town in the summer, but the stars aligned this year…
ES: How does it compare to Lollapalooza?
JS: I had managed to avoid Lollapalooza until recently because that is a complete sh*t show. I’ve been there once but not as a festival-goer. I was working on the transpo side, driving artists around. The festival site itself is huge. It takes 20 minutes to walk from the main stage on the south end to the one on the north side. The operations and logistics side of it is so intense and thorough… Pitchfork is more contained. It’s in a smaller park and it feels more approachable.
ES: When you say you’re working the transpo side – are you rocking the golf cart or what were you driving?
JS: If I was promoted I would have been in the cart.
Because I had never worked for Lolla before I was driving this big 12 or 15-passenger van, shuttling artists from the hotel to the festival site. It was a trip, honestly, but it was really fun. Sometimes I’d have three or four hours between assignments so I was able to see the festival. I saw the Foo Fighters and White Reaper.
ES: Like you saw them on stage? Or you transported them?
JS: For those ones, I made the effort to go into the festival grounds to watch them perform. I drove Modest Mouse and Angels and Airwaves. Tom Delonge wasn’t there he had his own car. There was a bunch of TikTok rappers I had never heard of who had like a billion streams. Like, “Oh my god, I’m completely out of the loop!” But I like driving and I like driving a big van. It was a good time.
ES: When Ratboys hit the road, are you driving then too?
JS: Yes. I am a bit of a control freak when it comes to driving, so it’s usually me. But we just bought a dedicated band van, which we’ve never had before. We purchased it under the LLC and everything so we’re going to try and be more democratic when it comes to driving duties.
ES: Two questions: is it Ratboys LLC? Because that’s amazing. And does the van have a name?
JS: Yes, Ratboys LLC. We’re calling the van Big Brown because it’s very big, and it’s brown.
ES: Laughs.
JS: It’s a beaut, I’m really stoked. Used cars are so expensive right now, but we found a deal. Dave’s dad found a listing for the van up in Wisconsin and we just jumped on it. He helped us fix a couple of minor things. It’s very exciting. We’ve toured in my family’s old SUV for years. It feels crazy.
ES: Would you ever want a tour bus? Or is that too much?
JS: If we could afford to do that someday, it would be amazing, because it would mean we could hire someone to drive and we’d be able to sleep overnight while traveling. That gives you so much more time to explore and do stuff in each city that you’re visiting.
We have some friends who travel that way and I’m always a little bit envious of the amount of activities that they’re able to squeeze into their day. Like obviously you’re squeezing in press stuff and other work obligations, but sometimes you have free time and can go rock climbing or get lunch or whatever.
ES: Laughs. Are you a big rock climber?
JS: I mean I’m thinking specifically about The Beths, from New Zealand. They were here back in February. They’re really big into bouldering and they were travelling in a bus and had time to kill in Chicago because they were playing two nights. They invited us to go bouldering and we went. It was really fun.
ES: You and The Beths should come to B.C., there is so much rock climbing here.
JS: I would love that. We’ve actually never been to Vancouver.
ES: I wasn’t going to bring it up but I noticed it was absent from the tour routing even though you are coming to the Pacific Northwest…
JS: I know, isn’t that sad? I don’t know why we’ve never played there, we’ve just never had the chance. We haven’t played the west coast as much as we’ve played the east coast, but we’ve done four or five support tours out that way and none of them have gone there for some reason. I hope we can make it happen.
I’ve actually never been to Western or Central Canada. I really want to go to Calgary, and Alberta in general. Saskatchewan. So many of my favourite artists are from those provinces…
ES: You probably don’t know it but you’re on the line with a bonafide Albertan.
JS: Amazing! One of my all-time favourite songwriters is Chad VanGaalen, who is from Calgary. I know Tegan and Sara are from Alberta… I know Joni Mitchell is from Saskatoon. I’m fascinated, I want to do a big ass road trip through Canada. I think we’ll make it happen one day. I have all these little goals in a note that I sent to our booking agent years ago. We really want to play all 50 states... I think we’ve done about 45 so far.
ES: Really?
JS: It’s hard to get out to Hawaii and Alaska.
ES: The beautiful thing is if you go to Alaska, you can stop in Vancouver on the way. It’s right there!
JS: We’re concocting a beautiful plan right now.
ES: I was worried that you had maybe toured here before and had a bad response, or that the city had offended you in some way.
JS: Not at all. It is always kind of exciting or nerve-wracking to play a show in a city you’ve never played. Like, “Is anyone going to come?”
ES: Your band definitely has a vibe that the city would embrace, I think. Those Canadian bands you just listed do well here.
What’s your favourite Tegan and Sara record by the way?
JS: Definitely The Con. That’s the record that got me into them and I’ll admit I came to it shamefully late. I only heard it in May of 2018. I can pinpoint the exact moment I heard that record for the first time. It’s the last time I can remember being so transfixed and obsessed with something immediately. I stayed up all night reading about it and figuring out which sister wrote which song, diving into the world of the record and how it was made. I love it.
The next one I got into by them was Love You To Death, which is their second pop record. I think it’s very underrated, it’s one of my absolute favourites and I wish it was talked about more.
ES: Funnily enough I was just listening to that record over the weekend. ‘BWU’ is such a banger.
JS: Dude, I think there are so many grade-A top-tier pop songs on that record… I love when the second-to-last song on an album is the sneaky best song and Love You To Death has that.
ES: It’s such a key part of the track listing. I remember growing up and thinking “The first song matters, the last song matters” but over time I realized “Oh, track two is really important, the penultimate song is important” and how those sequencing decisions help you understand the record.
JS: I’m a total sequencing nerd and I believe the second to last song is your chance to surprise people or put in a song that isn’t a single but could be a fan favourite. ‘U-Turn’ is like that.
What you said about track two is so true, too. The way I’ve thought about it in the past is track one is your chance to get someone’s attention, track two is when you really win it. Like, you get people hooked. They’re staying. And then track three is your chance to do something different and wild now that they’re hooked.
Are you a Wilco fan at all?
ES: I know Yankee Hotel Foxtrot but nothing else really.
JS: I think that record is the perfect example of that. It has tracklisting down to a science, the first three songs. And actually, a lot of their records are really strong in that regard. The first three tracks are compelling and grab your attention but there are weird choices that make them memorable.
ES: I have to assume the Tegan and Sara connection played a part in why you worked with Chris Walla this time around? I could listen to him talk about music and songwriting for hours.
JS: Agreed, we were soaking up every second in the studio. He’s a lovely person to spend time with so we were enjoying being in the room with him, but then he’s also helped create so much music. Our band grew up listening to Death Cab for Cutie so it was cool to talk to him about that, and he’s so open and willing to nerd out about stuff. I had so many specific questions for him, about the different mics they used or what the energy was like when they recorded ‘I Will Possess Your Heart,’ because we were in the room where they did it. And he was so down to talk about it.
ES: I find the stuff he talks about is so applicable across creative mediums. Having the right mindset and embracing where you’re at, in the moment. I think his production work is very underrated.
JS: I agree. I think one thing he’s consistently done that isn’t talked about is that he’s able to tease out the best version of an artist. What they can do, in a maximalist way. I think he makes artists comfortable in a way where you feel like you can do anything. You throw a lot of ideas at the wall and things come out that you wouldn’t predict. It’s intangible. It’s a feeling in the room and him understanding people’s relationships quickly. You bounce off that and it’s really cool.
An example I can think of is… He knows I love Tegan and Sara’s Forest Fone videos. It was day seven in the studio. Marcus and Sean’s partners were in town so it was just me, Dave, and Chris in the studio. Our plan was to record all these acoustic guitar parts. I wasn’t nervous but it was a change of pace from what we’d been doing. And to make me comfortable he brought out all the fake plastic pine trees from the Forest Fone set and placed them up in the live room and created this woodsy nook for me to record in. It was so thoughtful and showed that he was listening and cared, and was willing to indulge the ephemera of his past to make me stoked.
ES: It would be so easy for him to be jaded or unwilling to talk about past records. The fact he’s so willing to go back there and embraces it speaks to his character. And I have to say, he is the one who got me into your band. He shared ‘It’s Alive!’ and it really blew me away. Both singles are crazy good.
JL: Hell yeah, thanks dude… We cold emailed him and I was thrilled he even responded. It was surreal.
ES: Did you have a lot of ideas heading into the studio? Or was he helping with the songwriting itself?
JL: More of the former. The songwriting was pretty locked down. That’s one benefit of the world shutting down for two years. We had a ton of time to get together as a band and flesh out these songs and write new ones.
We started talking to Chris in 2021… We would record our practices in the basement and then pick good takes of the songs and send them to him. He heard the ideas as they evolved from little voice memos. For track three, ‘Cross That Line,’ he said “Let’s try it without a ride symbol, let’s make it weirdly quiet,” which is something we probably wouldn’t have done. Once we got in the studio there were spots we left open just to see what would happen. The song structures were locked in but there was a ton of room for spontaneous decisions and cool stuff we weren’t planning on.
ES: I always wondered how he could collaborate while still living in Trondheim. It’s cool he was able to give feedback and weigh in while the songs were still being written. Based off what I’ve heard so far, it seems like you kicked it into another gear songwriting-wise.
JS: I think the songs are a lot more fleshed out and that we feel more comfortable with the parts we’re playing. For example, Marcus and Sean wrote their parts for the first time on this record. We were all in the room playing these songs for months or even years before we got into the studio and were able to grow into the songs over time… and be honest about the parts we were writing. We were self-critical but not in a negative way.
ES: Everyone was trying to service the song so that it’s the best thing it can be.
JS: I’m proud of the way we’ve been able to communicate… We also had more time in the studio. We were in there for 24 days and we’ve never ever had the luxury of that much time. We tracked the bones of the songs over five days. Then we had 19 to track vocals and everything else.
ES: From a singing perspective, it must have been nice to be able to rest your voice and not bang things out like some production line.
JS: You have no idea. For some reason, I’ve always done all my vocals in one day. Like, you don’t need to do that. Laughs.
ES: Let’s talk about ‘The Window.’ That song seems really personal, and my impression is that it’s about death.
JS: Yes, it’s about the death of my grandmother, who passed away in 2020. She didn’t have COVID, but because it was such a dangerous situation, no one was allowed to go inside and visit. It tells the story of my grandpa going to visit her. It was pretty obvious that she was declining and he ended up saying goodbye through this window. Standing outside talking to her in her room. It’s a pretty intense situation but I find it so beautiful and odd. It’s a striking image.
I wrote that song last spring and every night on tour people would come up to me and say they had experienced the same thing. It’s a very relatable experience, oddly enough. I find talking about grief to be helpful and even joyful at times. It brings me peace, I think.
ES: That’s such a beautiful way to approach it, and I think the song captures those two sentiments.
JS: Thanks. I know this is so cheesy and clichéd but it really almost felt like it wrote itself. I wasn’t there to witness this interaction between my grandparents, but my mother was there. She called me and told me about it and I remember writing everything down as we talked on the phone. It was such a vivid image. My grandfather is a sweet, direct, honest person and I immediately knew I wanted to write a clear, concise version of this story. Having it be from his perspective made all the sense in the world because that’s who he is.
ES: I get the impression that you are close with your family, even though they live in Kentucky and you live in Chicago?
JS: My mom and grandpa live in Kentucky, my siblings are all spread out. But yeah, definitely, I love them.
ES: And you’re close with your grandpa too?
JS: Yeah, he’s 93 and living his best life right now. We’re both big sports nerds. He and I are the only people in the family who care about baseball and football and basketball.
ES: My grandpa is also really into sports, but I feel like that part of my family is sort of mysterious. I’m always envious of people who have intimate relationships with their grandparents.
JS: Not to get *too deep* into it but on my dad’s side, I never knew those grandparents. His dad died when I was a baby and his mom died when I was 10. So maybe I’m making up for lost time. I wish I had more documentation about those people and who they were. I remember almost nothing of our relationship, so it feels really good to have a document of this particular moment.
A couple of weeks ago we went down to Kentucky and my mom. She can be so over the top sometimes, I love her so much. She brought out the Bluetooth speaker and the lyric sheet for my grandpa and we all listened to the song together. He was so sweet about it. It’s just nice to have those moments. You remember that.
ES: It also sounds like your parents have been pretty supportive of your music. Has that always been the case? Or was there some hard conversations?
JS: There was never a hard conversation. I’m the oldest of four and when I graduated from college I was working at a PR firm in Chicago. I quit that job to do DIY touring and get a silly gig-work job on the side. I have to imagine they were probably a little freaked out because I was the eldest and doing this weird thing. But if they were, they never told me. They were very supportive.
At one point we were going on tour and I came home and my dad had mailed me a cheque for a couple hundred bucks. Like, “Here you go.” That was extremely kind and I don’t take that for granted. That’s a place of privilege, but I’m very grateful.
My mom keeps referring to this album release as “The Launch.” She keeps asking me “Are you ready for The Launch?”
ES: Laughs. That’s so funny. Mom wants to be in the biz so bad.
JS: She’s in it! She’s coming to the album release show. I’m so excited.
ES: Are you going to get her behind the merch booth?
JS: That would be awesome. She would do it.
ES: Are your parents musical? Do they understand *this* world?
JS: My mom is musical. I don’t think she understands this world necessarily, she was never in a band or anything. Her background was in musical theatre. Opera and stuff like that. She was a vocalist and played guitar more for fun growing up. I always grew up listening to music with her in the car on the way to school. The first guitar I ever played was the same guitar she played as a teenager. She’s still very much a fan of music. She doesn’t play or perform much anymore but we share playlists and have collaborative playlists that we both add to. It’s fun.
ES: That’s so fun – what sort of songs are on this playlist?
JS: Well it’s this playlist called Onward…
ES: Onward?! Laughs.
JS: Yes, she’s dealing with a big life change at the moment so it’s her big rebirth, restart playlist. I put a couple of songs on there that she wouldn’t have known otherwise. Peers of ours. I don’t know if you know Bonny Doon.
ES: I know of them but I haven’t listened to them.
JS: Their new record is wonderful. The title track is called ‘Let There Be Music’ and it’s just such a classic-sounding song. I put that on there for her, she loved it. She loves Beyonce’s ‘Break My Soul.’ She jams that all the time. The old standbys. Bonnie Raitt, Joan Baez, Sheryl Crow. I think I threw a Weepies song on there. I don’t know, it’s all over the place.
ES: That’s great. I have so much respect for older people who are still looking for new music because it’s so easy to get stuck in your ways.
JS: Definitely. She’s all about it. I respect that she’s honest with me.I put a couple songs on there and she was like “I took it off.” She knows what works for her and what doesn’t.
ES: What’s her favourite Ratboys song?
JS: Ooh, good question. I don’t think I’ve ever asked her that.
ES: That would be my first question if I was in your band.
JS: I think probably ‘The Window.’ She really likes that song. The only times we’ve ever really talked about specific songs is when she messages me all shy and asks “Is this about me?” And I tell her “No!” or sometimes “Yes but don’t worry, it’s fine.” I should ask her what her favourite song is…
ES: Is there a song you’ve written that you thought people would ask about but they never did?
JS: A little bit! Our song ‘Molly,’ which is on GN, I wrote it for my sister Molly and a couple of the lines in the song are just kind of strange. I name-drop my grandmother, Sue Palumbo. No one has ever asked me who that is – and in ‘The Window,’ the bridge is “Sue, you’ll always be my girl…” I’ve wondered if anyone would make that connection, that it’s the same person. But that’s the beautiful thing about easter eggs, they’re always there, so maybe someday if no one reads this newsletter, they’ll know.
ES: First off, how dare you suggest that no one would read this free newsletter. Laughs.
JS: I just mean if that person…
ES: I’m going to put in big bold letters that these things are related and that there’s a secret Ratboys Cinematic Universe happening in all the songs.
JS: I would love that. That’s the big takeaway.
ES: We’re ripping the lid right off this thing.
JS: I’m down – I’ll share it far and wide. It’s about time people know.
ES: I did want to ask you, why Chicago?
JS: Dave grew up in the south suburbs of Chicago. We were in college in South Bend, Indiana, which is about two hours away. He was my first introduction to playing shows and was part of this flourishing DIY community in the south suburbs in the early 2010s. I fell into that community through him. I made all these friends and we’d go back there to play shows every summer and when I graduated it was like, I could move there.
It’s a wonderful city. My mother went to college here and we came here on family trips and stuff, so I was already a little familiar with it. When I moved it was just the best thing ever. For a person who prides themselves on their sense of direction, and loves knowing where I am, Chicago is such an easy place to orient yourself. Our grid…
ES: Laughs.
JS: … Is shockingly easy to navigate if you’re lost. I just love that.
ES: Here I was thinking you’d say something about deep dish pizza or Midwest emo but no, it’s that the grid system is efficient.
JS: I can’t handle it. We always scheme and dream about where we’d want to live someday if we moved. But something about the city, the grid, is so wonderful. I can’t get over it. I’m fine living in a flat place. Seattle stressed me out. It was wonderful there, it was beautiful but it was so hilly. I couldn’t believe it. Is Vancouver also very hilly?
ES: We laugh because when people come to visit from the prairies they sometimes get shin splints from walking around everywhere.
JS: [Hall of Justice Recording Studio] was maybe a 30-minute walk away from where we were staying and the guys would sometimes walk in the mornings. I was like “You guys, I will be winded and wiped out by the time we get there.” It’s not a normal 30-minute walk. It’s up and down.
ES: When I asked to interview you, I said that I was gonna ask you about FX’s The Bear. We don’t have to talk about The Bear, but have you watched it?
JS: No. Everyone is telling me “You need to watch The Bear.” And I will eventually watch it, but I fear it’s gonna stress me out.
ES: It definitely will.
JS: I tend to watch the most stress-free TV out there. I’m watching Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives and SpongeBob SquarePants and that’s it. I’m not a huge TV person. I watched Breaking Bad which was a big thing for me. It was great, but I still haven’t watched season one though. I couldn’t handle the blood, so I skipped ahead. It was so gory. [Editor’s note: I assume she’s referring to the bathtub episode?].
A couple of our friends worked on The Bear, and it’s got such good reviews, so I’m really interested. My brother, who lives in Oregon, texts me all the time asking if I’ve watched it. What did you think?
ES: I loved it. I’ve only been to Chicago twice, and both times I was too young to really explore it or appreciate it. It seems like the show is a point of pride, which I get cause it is terrific, but also that it showcases a different side of the city than, like, Ferris Bueller’s Day Off.
JS: It’s filmed in a bunch of locations that are real bars and restaurants that my friends have been to. And it also showcases the Italian Beef. Have you ever had an Italian Beef?
ES: I have not.
JS: It’s probably the food I associate most with Chicago at this point, just from living here. It’s also the Chicago food that I eat the most often, um, which is not good for me. It’s delicious and worth trying. It’s also a hilarious name for something.
ES: Sorry it’s called Italian Beef?
JS: Yeah, like, an Italian Beef sandwich.
ES: What comes on this sandwich?
JS: Shaved rib eye, or shaved beef, which sits in this vat of beef juice. They grab this meat and put it on a hoagie roll. Then they put this condiment on it called Giardiniera, which is a spicy pickled vegetable relish. It’s usually very chunky – full pieces of carrots and cauliflowers and peppers and stuff.
But what you can do with the Italian Beef is, you can choose your own adventure in terms of how ‘wet’ you want it. Laughs. Which sounds gross. But you can have it juicy, which is where they pour more of the beef juice on it, or you can have it dipped, which is my preference, and where they fully submerge the sandwich into the vat of beef juice and bring it back out.
ES: How does that even physically stay together? It sounds like a mess.
JS: It is a mess – and I’m cool with that – but it is a mess. You cannot eat this in the car. I wouldn’t eat it there, you can’t, I wouldn’t. You have to eat it at a table, and if they do it right, it almost turns into a savory bread pudding. It’s soft…
ES: I don’t know, you’re losing me here Julia.
JS: I know! I’m not selling it. But these are oddly enough the things I like in my Italian Beef. It’s soft and savory and spicy in a way you wouldn’t expect. It’s greasy. It’s just good.
But you can order it dry. Shaun, our bassist, does that. I could never, but he does that and it’s fine. But it’s a thing here, and I think people don’t know about that, so I’m happy The Bear is spreading the gospel.
ES: Where is the best “soggy bread pudding” sandwich in Chicago?
JS: The consensus best Italian Beef spot is Johnnie’s Beef, which is actually close to where we live. It’s kind of on the outskirts of the city for most people, but it’s about a 10-minute drive for us. It’s this shack, there’s no indoor seating. In the winter, you have to be cold or eat in your car. They do an Italian Beef, there’s a thing called the combo where you get a sandwich with an Italian sausage on it. That’s pretty intense. And then fries and shaved ice. That’s all they serve and it’s great.
ES: I’ve been doing some graphic design work for the Vancouver band Bealby Point recently, and I wanted to ask, in your opinion, what makes a good band t-shirt?
JS: Oh my gosh… We’re very lucky because Marcus and Dave design a lot of our shirts. They have a lot of talent in that regard. I’m a fan of shirts that aren’t just text. Even if it’s not an illustration. But some sort of extra layering or intention or thought. I own so many band shirts at this point that I want something different from what I already have.
A lot of people like black t-shirts. I think it’s important to have a black t-shirt on the merch table for those people who only wear black, but then to also have a shirt that’s some sort of colour for people who have too many black tees.
ES: That’s excellent advice. One thing I’m finding is that many of the black t-shirts I’ve designed, and which we haven’t gone with, felt a little punk or pop-punk.
JS: I feel the same. I don’t buy many black shirts but it’s funny because, without fail, there is someone at every show who only buys black shirts. You kind of have to have it. People love animals, people love boats, people love bikes. Anything in those realms, I find people like, or if you can get away lightly ripping off established legacy logos or brands. Like, there’s a poster that goes up in Chicago alleys that says “Don’t feed the rats.” It’s a little illustration of a rat and we just used that.
ES: That’s so cute.
JS: It’s the city government, what are they going to do? I’m not condoning plagiarism but…
ES: Plus, your taxes paid for it. What’s your most prized band tee then?
JS: I know I just said it’s lame to have your band’s name in text on the front but if you do it in a cool typeface and it’s kind of small and there’s a lot of negative space around it, I like the look of that. Haim made a shirt like that. It’s a white tee and their name is in red right in the middle. It looks really cool and on the back, it says Women in Music, Pt. III. I love wearing that shirt. It feels weirdly fashionable for a white, Gilden tee. Somehow they nailed it.
ES: Why have these rules if we can’t break them?
JS: Exactly! Nothing matters.
Julia Steiner is one-fourth of Ratboys. She lives in Chicago.