Sable Yong: The things we want are never what we *actually* want
Challenging scent-based fascism, embracing outer beauty, analyzing artifice, chatting Bruce Willis flicks, and more, with Die Hot with a Vengeance author Sable Yong
VANCOUVER – Alex is still picking at his birthday cannoli when Goose asks him what nice things he has to say about himself.
“Like, what’s your favourite part of yourself… physically,” she asks.
She tilts her head back and guffaws at her own question, surprised, I think, at her own boldness.
Kate and I exchange mischievous glances across the table, smile like teenagers still embarrassed by human anatomy, but nevertheless intrigued.
The seven of us – Alex, Kate, Leah, Michelle, Andrea, Hereward, and myself – are sitting family-style at Pepinos, an Italian restaurant, on the city’s east side. We’ve cleared five or six courses already, stuffing our faces with warm focaccia and arugula salad, tomatoes buried beneath a dollop of burrata, rigatoni alla bolognese, and gnocchi in marsala and mushroom sauce, all of it washed down with glasses of Lambrusco and Diet Coke.
For dessert, our waitress has brought two towering tiramisus to split, and a special cannoli (covered in sprinkles) for the Leo, who is now 32.
When it arrived, we sang Happy Birthday and then everyone went around the table and told Alex something they love about him. Our friend Shomas started the tradition a few years ago: the birthday boy or girl receives some kind words from everyone in attendance and then has to share some kind words about themself.
As his partner, Kate had the honour of closing out the compliment gauntlet. She told us that Alex was the first guy she spoke with who seemed to understand where she was coming from, who seemed to see her, and who seemed compelled to live his truth.
She also said that he’s easy on the eyes.
When they arrived at the restaurant, I noticed Alex had a fresh haircut, his curls trimmed short and playfully coiffed. He told us that, this afternoon, he and Kate had gotten pedicures, and I suspect these recent instances of self-care are contributing to his overall sense of ease, allowing him to host the night comfortably even after several courses of rich Italian food.
Maybe it’s because I know that I have to write the intro to this week’s newsletter when I get home, but I’m suddenly reminded of my conversation with Die Hot with a Vengeance author Sable Yong. About the relationship between beauty and vanity, and the stories we communicate to ourselves and others via our appearance.
Typically, the birthday compliment gauntlet focuses on a person’s interior life – on their attitudes, behaviors, their tastes, and humour – rather than external looks. And yet, as my edited and condensed chat with Sable reminded me, external looks are often just as worthy of recognition. No, it’s not the end all be all, but being hot is hard work.
And so I’m intrigued to hear Alex’s answer. As is Kate, I think.
I watch her sip her Lambrusco and lean toward Alex.
“Favourite part of yourself physically… and ephemerally,” she says, riffing. “Nothing below the belt.”
ES: Given you’re a bit of a perfume genius, I want to start by asking about today’s scent story. What are you rocking today?
SY: Oh my gosh. I’m such a spoiled person. I get sent so many fragrances from boujee, expensive brands. The one I’m wearing right now arrived earlier this week. It’s by Maison Francis Kurkdjian. It’s funny, it’s called APOM, which stands for A Piece of Me, and I’m like… Why didn’t you just call it that? APOM is so funny to me. It’s a lovely scent, though. It reminds me of something my elementary school teachers wore, and it’s bringing me back to childhood. Obviously, APOM didn’t exist back then. It’s interesting. It’s a very powdery, floral scent profile, which normally isn’t my thing, but as soon as I smelled it, I thought “Whoa, I am back in Mrs. Gargiulo’s class.”
ES: That sounds so comforting. It’s interesting because in the book you write a bit about loving spicier scents, or scents that are… more pungent.
SY: I tend to be drawn to scents that are a bit darker and deeper and earthier and, yes, a little bit spicy. The more like masculine-coded scents, you might say.
ES: I don’t normally wear fine scents for Zoom interviews, but I did a little spritz of Aesop Tacit this morning in solidarity.
SY: I like that one! That’s part of their Othertopias collection.
ES: Damn, you had that on lock. I don’t know the last time you had a traditional office job, but my 9 to 5 has rules around fragrances at work, and I never considered how restricting that is. I would love to go to the office smelling like this. It makes me sad that I can’t.
SY: Not gonna lie, that feels low-key fascist. Laughs. Like, what else can’t we have? I get that people who are sensitive to smells in a negative way have very intense reactions to them. But it feels like a bit much.
ES: It unintentionally implies a lot. It makes the idea that you could smell good at work seem almost vain, even though the alternative is arguably worse.
SY: Yeah - does that logic also apply to what foods you can bring in for lunch, or what you can put in the microwave?
ES: Not to my knowledge. But I wanted to ask… Where are you at with your personal style journey? I assume writing this book gave you a lot of time to reflect on beauty, vanity, and your relationship between the two.
SY: Man, it’s funny… When you have access to everything, you realize how little of it truly changes your life. I still find myself wanting things when I scroll past them on social media… But I feel like I’m doing less to my appearance than ever before. Part of that is because I don’t leave the house as much. I don’t have to go to a job, I get invited to fewer press events as a freelancer than I did as an editor. I don’t have to keep up appearances, really. Also, because I went freelance right before the pandemic started, I spent a lot of time at home Marie Kondo-ing my whole beauty stash… I found all these products I forgot I had. I was playing with so much stuff and I thought “Wow makeup can be fun again.” It felt like I was a kid, smearing shiny stuff on my face. But I’ve realized I don’t wear that much makeup day-to-day. I’m not a huge complexion makeup person, I don’t fuck with foundation or concealer much unless I’m going to an event where pictures are being taken. I’m too much of a face toucher; it’s all going to end up in my fingernails.
We want to be absolved of having to make the choices, and absolved from having to reconcile with the stigmas of what we want
ES: Do you prefer to do your own makeup for press photos and stuff then? Or do you trust a glam squad?
SY: There have been very few times where I’ve gotten my makeup done and liked the way I look. It happened a fair bit when I was an editor because we did a lot of branded shoots. And I understand that it takes a lot of makeup to look like you’re not wearing makeup on camera because the lights wash everything out. It feels like a lot until you see the photos and everything looks normal. But, yeah, I think I just felt weird and alienated and not like myself in those scenarios, and that transfers to how comfortable you feel in front of the camera.
ES: It’s such an intimate process, right? I used to book live TV guests and I remember feeling awkward when I had to suggest they might want to see our makeup person. I would always preface it by saying “You look great, but you need TV makeup” but I worried about insulting them.
SY: It’s such a different look. Even with content creators doing makeup tutorials. A lot of times it seems the most popular ones are the ones people can use in their everyday lives — things like “Everyday Makeup” or “Easy Five Minute Makeup.” I see these creators and they’re pounding everything on because they have to. In real life, it looks crazy, and they know that, but it’s just part of the deal. But it’s also funny because I feel, for content creators, relatability and authenticity are their stock-in-trade, but the content by nature requires a bit of artifice to communicate.
ES: That touches on one of my key takeaways from your book: we want the fantasy but we don’t want to know how the fantasy is constructed. I feel like that applies to so many different facets of life, not just fashion and beauty.
SY: Oh yeah.
ES: But then you also point out how behind-the-scenes stuff often is more popular than the finished image, but even those are controlled to present a specific narrative. They are real but never too real.
SY: It’s so weird. The things we want are never what we actually want, and we don’t know that until we see them. There was a viral tweet recently. It showed the new cast of Love Island U.K. It was headshots for four women, looking very glam. Clearly, they’ve had some work done. And people were piling on them, saying “How are these women 24? They look 50! They look like newly divorced mothers.” We lambast that. But the people commenting are the same people who love the show and love watching these people.
To me, the issue isn’t even that we want these people to look natural, it’s that we’ve been ingrained socially to think that women should keep beauty work invisible, and that, if you don’t do that, you’re fulfilling the feminized role of what you’re supposed to do to be considered desirable or “wifey material.” These women are literally going on a reality show to try and find a husband, they want to signal that they’re going to keep up appearances, that they’re going to have this Pilates body, do the work, uphold their end of the bargain of being hot…
ES: In the book, you describe the experience of being human as “odd,” which I think is kind of the perfect word for this whole thing. Laughs. It’s so odd to want everything and nothing at the same time.
SY: We want to be absolved of having to make the choices, and absolved from having to reconcile with the stigmas of what we want, which is not really possible.
ES: Not to go all Barbie (2023) but I was watching the Olympics and someone I know happened to comment on some of the girls running for the US track team, and how some of their hairstyles weren’t “aerodynamic”. And I know they were theoretically joking but I couldn’t help but think “Who the fuck cares?” They’re still fast as fuck, and they’re still some of the top athletes in the world. If anything, the fact they look good and win gold makes them more impressive.
SY: And also, with Olympic athletes, looking good matters because it gets them camera attention and can lead to sponsorships. It matters. Maybe they felt more confident that way, maybe it’s a personal preference. In any case, it wasn’t done without purpose.
ES: I was thinking the same thing. Looking good is such a confidence boost. I just wore a tuxedo for my wedding and it heightened my experience of the day because I wasn’t feeling self-conscious. I feel like a lot of people underestimate that, especially men.
SY: I feel like putting effort into your appearance is considered feminized behavior even though men do it too — and to the same degree. It’s just as tricky for men, in a way, because if you put too much effort in it’s… I dunno…
ES: It’s like “What is he gay?”
SY: Yeah! Even though we want our men to look good. I’ve also heard from women friends of mine who say “I don’t trust a man if he looks too good.” It’s as if vanity is untrustworthy.
ES: I have to say, I was a little nervous about this interview because I wasn’t totally sure how to approach it as a cis-het man. And I’m somebody who tries to explore his vanity a fair bit... To me, it feels like something men are reluctant to talk about, but I wonder how you see it.
SY: I’d say they are doing it now. Optimization glow-up culture is coming for us all. It’s already here. 12-year-old boys are getting perms to have that broccoli hair. Laughs.
ES: Or even looksmaxxing, I guess.
SY: I love that term because it explains exactly what it is. Like the rest of us, men are online all of the time now… We’re being looked at by more people than ever, whether we want to or not, simply by participating in digital culture. Boys are growing up with the appearance anxieties that girls have always grown up with. The difference is that girls are still socialized to believe that appearances are where they derive most of the value of their personhood, whereas men usually don’t think that as much. I think they’re starting to absorb it. They’re seeing these hot guys become famous TikTok stars, famous actors, and thinking “I want to live like that. I want to be successful like that.”
In a way, they’re realizing what we all know, which is that beauty works. We all know it works. When you look good, you feel good, it boosts your confidence, and people perceive you differently. Of the little bits that I’ve investigated looksmaxxing, it’s sort of cute. They’re encouraging each other, and I love that. But a lot of the time it’s sad because they’ll say things like “I don’t want to be a loser, I want someone to date me,” and I want to tell them “Please! Just be nice to girls, just be funny.” That’s literally all you need to do and you will sweep up.
ES: It’s interesting because for a while, looksmaxxing had a tinge of incel-ness to it, and I feel like that, unfortunately, colours a lot of the conversations straight men have when it comes to looks and vanity. It ends up being a “Me versus the Chads” dialogue, as opposed to “girls supporting girls.”
SY: I feel like the guys with that “Me versus the Chads” mentality don’t respect women. I think they’re doing it specifically because they see women as a prize that they are entitled to if they do the work. Like, sure, you might end up with better-looking women if you are better-looking, but there’s a chance you still might not find a connection.
ES: Yeah they seem to forget that a great personality can make up for a lot.
SY: They’re just going to have to learn.
ES: It feels like a lot of the dialogue surrounding beauty right now exists in video form, as opposed to writing. Why was it important for you to write a book and not, say, record a YouTube series?
SY: There are plenty of people much smarter than me creating thoughtful video essays, and I think that’s great… To be honest I was approached to write this book, it wasn’t necessarily something I was cooking up in the background, or pitching, but I had an idea and I wanted to write… I knew it would have to be an essay collection because I couldn’t imagine writing 350 pages of a linear concept of this. I think that would be really boring. I find delivery so important when it comes to disseminating this type of information. For me, if things can be delivered with a bit of humour, it makes me more receptive.
The only books about beauty that I’ve seen are tutorials or very academic, philosophically written books about how beauty is a tool of the patriarchy to oppress women, and how beauty harms women. And yes, in many ways it does. But that doesn’t give us any agency. If the only solution is to reject beauty altogether, that feels like a really bummer life to me because I love beauty. I think it’s really fun, and a lot of other people do too. They think it’s fun but also feel the anxiety to perform a certain kind of femininity or look “presentable”… It’s such a silly thing that we all do. It’s such a weird human behavior. And it matters because it does have real-life effects.
ES: What is one beauty trend we need to abandon?
SY: Honestly, we gotta start gatekeeping. Laughs. I don’t need to know all the shit you do to your face and body. I’m happy for you. I truly am. I think people who feel a sense of agency with their appearance is a good thing. At the same time, I need you to stop constantly making content about it. I don’t care! It’s content created under the guise of beauty transparency… But everyone’s doing that now. It's no longer radical… The more people talk about things like injectables as a means to self-empowerment, the more I think people will feel pressured to get them. It communicates this very privileged lifestyle, that you can afford these expensive procedures. And if you can’t, you might try to get a Groupon to a Med Spa. Please don’t do that. These nurses are freshly trained, they don’t have experience with how these things move, and there isn’t even a ton of long-term research about how these procedures play out long term. It feels like everyone is just discovering facial fillers, which are supposed to dissolve in a year or two, may never dissolve, and can migrate!
If the only solution is to reject beauty altogether, that feels like a really bummer life to me because I love beauty.
ES: On the flip side, what is an underrated beauty trend, or something you’d like to see more of?
SY: I love it when people do weird, experimental colors, or haircuts, or makeup. It’s this little bat signal that helps you find your people. I don’t know if that's a trend… But there have been countless times when friends of mine will say “I like this style but I don’t think I can pull it off.” And I always dare them to do it. You won’t know until you do it.
ES: At the risk of ending this on a bro-y note, I couldn’t help but notice the book is a reference to Die Hard. And not just Die Hard, but a Die Hard sequel. So I have to ask: what’s your favourite Bruce Willis movie?
SY: Oh my god… Death Becomes Her. It was a wacky role for him. It’s a 1992 horror comedy starring him and Goldie Hawn. It’s been one of my favorite movies since I was a kid. It’s grotesque and violent, but Bruce Willis plays a plastic surgeon. He’s initially with Goldie Hawn’s character, but she’s frenemies with Meryl Streep who steals him away. Goldie Hawn goes to this mysterious magical woman played by Isabella Rossellini who gives her a potion that preserves her body at peak physical form and makes her immortal. She can injure her body but she’ll still live. At one point Meryl Streep shoots Goldie in the chest with a shotgun. It’s funny because she can’t feel pain, but gross. Bruce plays the bumbling husband in that. I think he’s very underrated as a comedy actor.
Sable Yong is a journalist and writer. She lives in Brooklyn.
You can buy Die Hot with a Vengeance wherever great books are sold.