Tea time with Bravo TV expert Brian Moylan (Human Pursuits 13/3/23)
Vulture's reality TV expert on #Scandavol, Summer House hotties and why pro sports is reality TV for straight people.
VANCOUVER – If you scanned social media at all in the past week, you may have encountered the seemingly ceaseless drama surrounding Bravo TV’s popular reality show Vanderpump Rules. #Scandavol, as some fans call it, centers on three of the show’s cast members: longtime couple Tom Sandoval and Ariana Madix, and Rachel “Raquel” Wiess, who has apparently been sleeping with Sandoval for months. News of the affair, and the subsequent dissolution of Sandoval and Madix’s relationship, exploded across Twitter and TikTok, as fans and gossip commentators shared a slew of updates, each of an increasingly salacious magnitude. By the end of last week, The New York Times had stepped in to try and explain the whole situation. Vanderpump Rules had been thrust into the national spotlight.
But while some may see this as just the latest in a growing list of TikTok-fuelled scandals (Hailey vs. Selena, anyone?), for others #Scandavol is a tipping point in Vanderpump history. A moment that will live in infamy. The president has been shot, a man is walking on the moon, Will Smith has slapped Chris Rock. The stakes, in other words, have never been higher. And so I had to bring in the big guns.
Enter: Brian Moylan. The bestselling author of The Housewives: The Real Story Behind the Real Housewives, Brian has spent the entirety of his adult life writing about reality TV. So I placed a call across the pond to London. Our conversation, which has been edited and condensed for clarity, touched on his earliest experiences with the genre, his thoughts on the Madix/Sandoval/Weiss love triangle, his love of a certain Summer House cast member, why pro sports is reality TV for straight men, and so much more.
ES: You’re eight hours ahead, which means you’re technically in the future. Are there any #Scandalvol updates I should be bracing for?
BM: Nothing that I know of! I haven’t even been looking at the internet, I’ve been busy writing my newsletter… I wrote a bit about why I think this is the story that made it to the mainstream.
ES: Oh really?
BM: Basically it’s that Bravo fans became so obsessed with it that everyone else had to pay attention. But we also did a March Madness bracket for the worst house husband of all time so that’s really fun. The final four is Jim Marchese from The Real Housewives of New Jersey, Ralph Pitman from Atlanta, Ken Todd, and Lenny Hochstein.
ES: Not Ken Todd! What did he ever do?
BM: He was so mean to some of the ladies. The bracket has one quadrant that is Nice Husbands, so he’s the worst of the nice ones.
ES: I have to be fully honest, I do love the Bravo Universe but I am not at all brushed up on any of The Real Housewives mythology.
BM: Got it - but you’re a Vanderpump fan? What’s your Bravo exposure?
ES: So my flavors are Vanderpump Rules, obviously, Winter House, Summer House, and then The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Any of the new series since 2020 I’ve probably checked out, but before that, I am woefully ignorant.
BM: I find it so fascinating what straight gentlemen choose to watch. It’s lots of Vanderpump Rules, lots of Below Deck, lots of Summer House. I initially thought it was because the girls were younger and hotter. But I think what it really is, is those are the shows with straight guys on them. Straight guys need someone to identify with to get into the shows.
ES: I think that’s 100% accurate. Straight guys like seeing other straight guys do stuff that is foreign to them. Someone like [Vanderpump’s] Jax Taylor is fascinating because women and men hate him, but sometimes for different reasons. And sometimes men are almost in on the joke? Maybe that’s the wrong way to phrase it.
BM: And also maybe a little jealous that Jax gets to Jax and they don’t?
ES: Yeah there’s a fantasy element to it for sure.
BM: My husband has one brother and he’s a Bravo fan and it’s like “Thank you!” I have a hard time dealing with straight men. But if we have Bravo then I’m good.
ES: It’s funny you mention that, I don’t love being in “straight guy” spaces either. I was getting a tattoo the other week and, for some reason, a bunch of the men in the shop started talking about how their girlfriends watch reality TV and how much they hate it. But they were really excited about Jake Paul's boxing career.
BM: Girl, they probably like professional wrestling which is basically just Housewives in smaller outfits.
ES: That’s so funny, I was just thinking this morning that Andy Cohen might be a gay [entertainment and pro-wrestling mogul] Ted Turner.
BM: Well, I mean, possibly? I feel like Andy does great work and I don’t want to discount that. He was very formative in the Housewive’s early success. But I feel like he as an individual has been less involved with the channel’s overall success than someone like Ted Turner would’ve been.
ES: That is a very astute observation and I appreciate that you were willing to roll with my weird theory.
BM: I talk about this a little in my book. People are like “Oh Andy fired someone because he doesn’t like her.” Andy is not some Svengali or some monarch over the housewives. There are production companies, there’s Bravo, and there’s the head of NBCUniversal entertainment. Andy is one of many voices in the room. I think he gets the benefit of that, people are like “Andy Cohen is the Ted Turner of our generation!” But he also gets shit. When there’s a racism scandal on Vanderpump, a show he has literally nothing to do with, people call on him to fire cast members. It’s not his job!
ES: Given we don’t really know each other, I wanted to ask how long you’ve lived in London?
BM: We moved here five years ago for my husband’s job. He works in television. In scripted dramas.
ES: Are we talking about The BBC?
BM: He does lots of high-brow, international co-production stuff. Lots of foreign language stuff. His company just made a deal with Edward Burger who did All Quiet on the Western Front… It’s very different from the Bravo-sphere.
ES: It’s good to have some variety. A little high, a little low.
BM: He comes home from work and just wants to watch Bravo and I’m done with work and just want to watch high-brow dramas.
ES: I was actually going to ask how you unwind after a day monitoring the Twitter-sphere.
BM: I’m not super high-brow. I watch a lot of reality television because I do really love it. But I’m also a big sci-fi fan. Comic books, The Mandalorian, you know? But I do love a high-minded escape every now and then.
ES: Explore some broader themes, some serialized story-telling, though I suppose Bravo does offer that too.
BM: I mean you have to watch Tenessee Williams, to understand why the Housewives are like Tenessee Williams, ya know?
ES: What was your first foray into the Housewives or Bravo?
BM: I started writing about television when I was working at The Washington Blade, which is the oldest continuously running gay newspaper in D.C. This was 2000, so gays on TV were not nearly as prolific as they are now. I would write about gay stuff on TV, and the column was syndicated in gay newspapers around the country. I got into a show called Gay Wedding which was on Bravo early on, that was about different gay couples planning their wedding. Shortly after that was Queer Eye, and then a show called Boy Meets Boy where they had a gay guy pick from a bunch of dudes, some of which were gay but some of which were also straight.
ES: Oh my god!
BM: So I was really into Bravo. It was the channel that would be on as I did stuff around the house. And that’s how I got into the Housewives. From it being on and wondering “What’s this?”
ES: How has reality TV informed your identity as a gay man? Or has it?
BM: I don’t know that it has informed my identity, but I think reality television helped gay people make a lot of strides very quickly at the time. Most people consider the summer of 2000, and Survivor, to be the start of the Reality Age. And the first winner of Survivor was Richard Hatch, a gay man. Here are 50 million people watching this gay dude being himself… Like, they called him a fat naked fag on television! I rewatched that first season recently and there’s a lot of not-great homophobic stuff surrounding Richard and the conversations about him that wouldn’t fly today. But you couldn’t deny him, and I think that did a lot to help increase the acceptance of gay people in the broader public.
ES: How old were you when that first season aired?
BM: I was 21… My adulthood and the adulthood of reality TV coincided. It was such a good time. It was when you could do anything. Do you remember The Swan?
ES: Uhhhh, the name sounds familiar.
BM: The Swan was a show where they gave a bunch of ladies a shit ton of plastic surgery and wouldn’t let them look at themselves until the end of the project. Then they had to compete in a beauty pageant.
ES: Did that air on FOX?
BM: Yes of course it did! It was horrible. But also amazing. You could never do that now, which is for the better.
ES: How does it feel as a longtime fan to know that Vanderpump is getting all this attention from people who maybe hadn’t heard of it two weeks ago? Especially given the gender and sexual politics we were talking about earlier.
BM: I am a big evangelist for the quality of reality television and that it’s a giant, expansive unscripted genre. When people say they hate it, I’m like “Girl, you absolutely watch a reality show,” whether it’s House Hunters, Couples Therapy, everybody watches it… People act like they’re above it, but then also idolize pro football which is literally giving people CTE… People are into all sorts of dumb shit. There are people who play Quidditch! I’m not going to go into the park and ask why someone likes that, or tell them it’s stupid. But people will do that in the comment section or on Twitter when stuff about the Housewives is posted… And you’re right, so much of it has to do with that it’s popular with women and gays, or whatever, who are into this, as opposed to what straight white dudes are into. Because they’re into football we have to pretend like it’s some great thing. It’s really dumb.
ES: I don’t know if you follow the NBA at all, but it’s one of the most dramatic sports leagues on the planet. Every season has storylines, characters who are fighting each other, back office drama. It’s like reality TV for straights – and football has a lot of the same elements.
BM: I just wrote about this for my March Madness bracket. We talk about the same things. Who’s having a good season? Who’s not? Who should be fired? Who should be traded? I grew up in a sports-centric family and I understand how it goes. My family that loves the Boston Redsocks feels the same way about Omar Garcia Parra as I do about Lisa Vanderpump. One isn’t better than the other, it’s all just something to talk about…
ES: You mentioned the Redsocks. Are you from Beantown?
BM: No, I’m from the great state of Connecticut, but my mother is from Boston. She’s lived in Connecticut longer than she lived in Boston but she still has the accent. She sounds like Ben Affleck on a bad day… She would forgive anything, she was very supportive when I came out. But I think if I ever became a New York Yankees fan that would be the end.
ES: [In a bad Boston accent] You can be a queer but you gotta support the Redsocks.
BM: Laughs. Exactly. [In a better Boston accent] Be as queer as you want!
ES: How did you get into writing?
BM: I just always wanted to be a writer… I’d have to go to my brother’s baseball games and I’d always bring a book. I was always reading, wanting to be on my own. We’d go to Fenway Park and I’d just sit there with my book the whole time… I went to grad school for creative writing and that’s when I started at The Blade. I learned journalism at The Blade, so now I’m in-between journalism and creative writing. My book was reported using all the things you learn doing shoe leather journalism… But my recaps are me noodling around, being fun, being literary. Even when I do a researched and reported newsletter I try to make the writing funny and conversational and have a voice.
ES: Your writing definitely has a personality to it, which I’ve always appreciated.
BM: Thank you. I can write an Associated Press news story if need me to, but I feel like it’s a waste of all this talent!
ES: Friend of the newsletter Kate Lindsay was telling me she got her start writing Harry Potter fanfiction. I have to assume Bravo fanfiction exists - have you written any or read any?
BM: Have you not read my Vanderpump Rules recaps? All of them end with Tom Sandoval and Tom Schwartz hooking up!
ES: What?!
BM: I started writing about Vanderpump rules for Vulture around season 5… My Housewives of New York recaps have this running bit about Jill Zarin, who was fired, and how she’s a spy and trying to get back on the show. Jill Zarin is always creeping around the edges making stuff happen. Anyways, I was wondering what I could do for Vanderpump Rules. I started thinking “What is the show really about?” And the show is really about the love between Tom and Tom. So every recap ends with them having a little moment together.
ES: I don’t think I’ve read much of your Vandepump coverage because, up until now, I was pretty disengaged with the franchise. I think most of what I’ve read from you is about SLC, Summer House, and Winter House, which I don’t think includes much fanfiction…
BM: I mean I write fiction about me and [Summer House’s] Kyle Cook every day in my mind.
ES: You do love Kyle.
BM: Oh my god I love him so much. My husband’s brother and his wife threw me a birthday party during the pandemic and it was Kyle Cook themed. There were Kyle Cook decorations, they took my nephew’s gaming chair and put his face on the seat so I could sit on it.
ES: How has your love for Kyle grown or diminished with the new mullet?
BM: I am choosing to love Kyle despite his mullet, knowing that it will at some point come to an end.
I just love that what Kyle Cook wants more than anything else is for everyone to be together and to have a good time. That’s what I want… And that’s the kind of role I insert myself into. Making sure everyone’s having fun. I was in a Fire Island share house, similar to Summer House, for many years, and much like Kyle, I was the house mother who had to do all the organizing and rallying of people. So maybe it’s a narcissistic love. I see a lot of myself in Kyle…
ES: I was listening to [former Vanderpump stars] Stassi [Schroeder] and Kristen [Doute’s] podcasts about the #Scandavol fallout. Both of them were talking about the extensive therapy they’ve had to do after being fired, and they were pretty open about how damaging it can be to star in this type of show. It got me thinking: what is the best-case scenario for this type of Bravo reality star? Is there a template or a model or someone who has navigated this type of celebrity successfully?
BM: Oooh that’s a very good question. I think it’s a lot easier on competition shows. If you’re on Survivor or Big Brother for a season, for example. But all reality TV contracts are bad… If you sign up to be on reality TV, you’re signing up to be exploited. As long as you know that going in, cool. But the level of exploitation varies. Can you imagine Tom Sandoval or Jax Taylor trying to get a job? Like going to apply for a job? You show up at Home Depot and “Oh there’s Jax Taylor?” They’re already casting people with big personalities, who are on the fringes anyway. You give them some fame and then take it away and expect them to go back to regular life? It’s never going to happen. That’s why I became so obsessed with Jill Zarin. The day she got fired her life was ruined.
I used to talk about Alex McCord who was an original housewife of New York. She left the show and she was on a bunch of D-list reality shows for a while like Celebrity Bootcamp. Her husband is from Australia and they eventually decided to move back there. Leave it all behind. She became a psychologist, he became a lawyer. It seems like they were happy that they had forgotten about Real Housewives entirely. I thought “This is the way to do it.” Go change it all around, do something different. But now she’s coming back for the next season of The Real Housewives Ultimate Girls Trip. She was out!
ES: Doute and Stassi were making it sound like they’re really fighting the urge to come back. Setting boundaries on who they will and won’t communicate with from production, and what they will and will not say. And now this morning I see paparazzi shots of Doute filming.
BM: They would both go back in a heartbeat. I don’t care what they say. And I think that’s true of everybody. When I was researching for my book, Bravo told cast members not to talk to me, and even Housewives who weren’t on the show abided by that because they don’t want to ruin their shot at a possible return. I think it’s easier for reality TV as a whole to exploit people like Jax and Kristen and Stassi who have no other recourse, as opposed to someone who does a single season of Survivor. But by that same token… Bravo can’t piss off cast members too much or they may not come back…
So I have a question for you. As a straight gentleman who’s into the Bravo-sphere. Do you have any Bravo crushes?
ES: That’s a great question. I think it varies from season to season. Amanda on Summer House season 3 or 4 I thought was a cutie. I think Stassi is charming in her own diabolic way.
BM: Stassi was always hot, even if she was crazy.
ES: Post chin implant Stassi, when she was still on Adderall was definitely a sweet spot. But you can also have a straight-guy crush on some of the men. Like Luke is boring but he seems like a guy I could be friends with.
BM: So Bravo guys you’d want to bro down with?
ES: I think man or woman, there are charming people who you’re happy to see on your TV. Oh, and Ciara [from Summer House] is maybe the most beautiful person on the planet.
BM: She’s so hot. I would sleep with her.
ES: She’s damaged but wow is she beautiful.
BM: I mean most people on reality TV are damaged.
ES: They are but what gets me with Ciara is that she seems so put together on the outside. But she has a real sadness to her, especially with her daddy issues.
BM: But can you deal with the mess?
ES: I don’t think I could, personally… But I have the same question for you. Are there any other Bravo hotties who catch your eye?
BM: TONS of them. The problem is, with the Housewives’ husbands, so many of them turn out to be dicks… But the Million Dollar Listing guys. They’re all hot… I would sleep with every guy who’s ever been on Summer House.
ES: I should also go back a step and give credit to Ariana, who is also stunningly beautiful and probably the baddest chick Bravo has.
BM: I love Ariana. I think part of the reason the #Scandavol has been so crazy is that she’s the one person on the show who gets along with everybody. For you to fuck over Ariana is fucked up. But I hope better for her than Tom Sandoval. What I really want is for a rich man or woman to come find her and say “You don’t have to be on television anymore.” I just want her to be well taken care of, and then in five or six years, come to Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. I would be happy to see her.
ES: Last question: fuck marry kill the Vanderpump-related restaurant properties.
BM: Tom Tom is the best of a bad lot. So I’ll say marry Tom Tom, fuck SUR. Every time I’ve been around to Pump recently it has been dead. So I’ll kill Pump.
Brian Moylan is a writer and cultural commentator who focuses on the Bravo-sphere. He lives in London.
not buying it. It's bogus that these people go from show to show. Makes it all totally unbelievable! The same woman on three shows, always a pill, and the same lame guy on two different shows? Seriously?